Work Programme Go Live!

Is anyone in an area that has gone live yet? If so what have your referral numbers been if any. And what are your thoughts on the programme and processes.

The news on BBC Breakfast has just told me it starts today and will get a million people back to work LOL.

No mention of the 10000 plus redundancies about to happen.

Now back to the real world. In CPA7 it goes live on Monday with first customers due to arrive in centres on 20th June. No idea of numbers yet.

It is an absolute travesty that such little media attention has been invested in this developing situation. DWP have replaced an existing programme that is currently exceeding targets for sustainability and enlisted a group of Prime Contractors who are currently refusing to talk to their own supply chain. With a current go-live date of three days time, and more than 10,000 Welfare-to-Work employees facing rredundancy, the projection that Chris Grayling has given is farcical. It's about time that the Government opened its eyes to the ensuing timebomb that will inevitably hit the industry, its employees and most importantly the very people it is trying to help....

Shall we open a book on when the first sub is going to fold or give back the contract?

@AndrewJ - Met with End-to-End deliverers this week who are categorically refusing to sign contracts with the Primes until the Tupe issue has been resolved (which is a complete disaster at the moment). I have it on very good authority that DWP have been contacted this week and said that they were unaware of any problems as the Primes in our CPA have said that they are ready to roll..... Strong suggestions are now hinting that contracts with DWP have not yet been signed as at least one prime is ready to pull-out. This coupled by the fact that they refuse to deal with thier own suppliers...

The whole thing is shambolic- and alot of people in other sectors are facing the same as ours - none of the people in and out of this sector think this government will last as they leave very few people unaffected whether it be directly or indirectly (family or friends)affected by redundancy. Why did the BBC not report the rather conservative estimate of 10,000 job losses in the sector with the WP.

The list of subcontractors was released today (I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere on ID but thought I'd post here anyway) so we can all see who is involved in delivery.

Visit W2W Solutions website ( or to download a revision of DWP's spreadsheet.

I've merged the tier 1 and tier 2+ providers onto a single sheet and have also de-duplicated them so hopefully it will help give people the full picture of who is involved and where without having to jump around on a computer and go through ten notepads trying to work it out!!!

Worth holding out for better terms from Primes. Ours has agreed to quite a lot of our proposed amendments.

What we really need to see is the value of subcontracts, not just numbers of agencies.

Hahahahahah !!!!


I spot my company on there as T1 T2+ suppliers in my CPA supplying the only specialist provision in our area of specialism....

I think that list needs seriously correcting, as we shut down today with the loss of all ships, and all hands ....

All of the employees are currently clinging to bits of driftwood rapidly drifting toward the universal credit reef.

I think the million people mentioned on the BBC are the million people lining up outside the jobcentre because the frontline staff have nowhere to refer them to because the subbys are dropping like flies

Have you done any work paid or unpaid since you last sgned on ? >STAMP< see you in two weeks....,next.

Mental health issues? Sorry mate our subcontractor just folded >STAMP< see you in two weeks....,next

Housing issues? Sorry mate our subcontractor just folded >STAMP< see you in two weeks....,next

Drugs issues? Sorry mate our subcontractor just folded >STAMP< see you in two weeks....,next

Just got out of prison? Sorry mate our subcontractor just folded >STAMP< see you in two weeks....,next

Debt issues? Sorry mate our subcontractor just folded >STAMP< see you in two weeks....,next

Oh well, 4:30 already, that day just flew, i'm all stamped out, see you all tomorrow for more of the same

Point of order LOL it won't be a million lined up outside the jobcentre it will be a million plus 10000. You forgot the add the out of work W2W staff o the queue

I stand corrected, and concede the point to the right honorable member for CPA7 :)

I wonder how many of the 10000 will be attending the w2w Conference in Manchester on June 30th to listen to the muppet grayling deliver some more verbal dross I for one will be there with my flask and a loud hailer

Needless to say i have yet to get a reply from the graylingc [at] parliment [dot] uk address on his constituency website regarding TUPE denial complicity by the primes in my CPA

Oh well, at least Mr.Fightback's national media contact has a copy of the Prime complicity communication, despite Mr.Disgruntled's denials of its existence so expect a national media level poo storm

And just for good measure, Mr Tacitus now holds a copy of said communication as well.

Oh well, as jim Garrison said, "I say let justice be done though the heavens fall"

definition MUPPET = Member of Useless Parliament P*****g on Emloyability Training.

Sounds about right to me

Yet again, i concede to the learned gentleman on the question of 'muppets'

I refer my honourable Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago


On another note, i believe i have spoken to you in person over the last couple of days by mobile phone :)

Technology house is such a fine establishment i believe.

yallright our kidda ?


@ anonymous. OOOPS. if we have spoken on the phone that either makes you a colleague that TUPE'd with me, a colleague waiting to be TUPEd, a director of the company I have TUPEd from, the very nice man I spoke to yesterday who is now my boss for the time being (a very very nice man) or Jed the landlord of the pub I drink in. Somehow I dont think you are Jed LOL

@anonymous Now I am After reading your other posts in this and other threads it is clear that you have lost your job and I am deeply sorry about that.

There are two scenarios I have flying through my head at the moment either it wasn't me you spoke to on mobile phone or your the very nice man who I thought was going to be my boss.

If its the latter then the stupidy of this whole TUPE mess has been perfectly illustrated by our situation and the fact you had to phone me to welcome me to the company on the day you lost your job.

I hope and pray it was the former and that you didn't speak to me but to someone else.

Anonymous - re earlier post re the list from DWP. The list issued by DWP is the list of subcontractors that primes put in their bids. As far as I'm aware there isn't an option for the prime to back out and suddenly not use the subcontractor, which is I think partly the reason DWP are being so open. Primes won their bid based on their whole supply chain, so if you find that an organisation has been shut out when they were named in a bid then I would raise this urgently and formally with DWP, CG and IDS. This can't be allowed to turn into the same farce that TUPE has.

But do check the original DWP list as that was one hell of a job to merge everything and it's always worth checking the source material first! :)

stephw2w, I think you will find that quite a number of subbies, named in the bids, have withdrawn or have not yet signed their contracts.

welcome back dakotalady

"Point of order LOL it won't be a million lined up outside the jobcentre it will be a million plus 10000. You forgot the add the out of work W2W staff o the queue"

Point of Order Stan Gilde..... the 10000 were doing jobs which had previously been done by Admin Clerks within Job Centre Plus, and lets get real here. The W2W Sector was never a wealth creating sector, and those made redundant should not get ideas above their station and presume that they are qualified to do any job other than to work in a Call Centre or Fast Food Outlet. And, apparently, for those clerks who do not feel sufficiently confident about transferring their skills to a Real Job working in a Call Centre (at least compared with money for old rope in the W2W Sector), some Job Centre Plus Offices have even set up training programmes which will at least help them on the road to redemption.

As a worker with with a former prime provider in east london I am horrified at how we have been treated. Starting from possible redundancies without any consultation, then to tupe and now having to reapply for our jobs and told that those who fail will be tupe'd over. We have been treated appallingly and the consultation process is a joke. Some of us are considering legal action and would suggest that others do the same.

Hi All

Copy and paste the sentence bellow in to the campaign suggestions forum search area and vote please on ""

"saving our welfare to work sector (URGENT) being decimated due to the new work programme"

@Prometheus. Steady on old chap. I made a quantative statement to make a point. You made a sweeping qualitative generalisation which you couldn't possible support. In my team we have 4 in delivery roles 3 of which have degrees and are qualified. If I generalised like you did I would suggest from the small sample that 75 percent of those delivering W2W were qualified to degree level which we both know is unlikely.

I was merely making a light hearted point that there is about to be another 10000 unemployed as a direct result of the introduction of WP

Apologies for the delay in replying to this Mr.Glide, but i think i have a case of mistaken identity as you mentioned earlier.

I thought you may have been that nice chappy i spoke to the other day over the phone at S****guide up in CPA7. He was just about to go and get interviewed for his own job under the TUPE umbrella, and i wished him well.

One day later i became unemployed as my prime refused to give me an umbrella, and my subby decided to fall on its own sword rather than sit around with multiple regional offices full of empty referral trays for months on end until the prime could be bothered to send us anything..., even though they were mad keen to get us on board to prove to DWP that they had a solid supply chain during the tendering process.

They used us to get the prime contract, then once won they flushed us like yesterdays breakfast

I think i may go and see Jed the landlord, as he probably knows more about TUPE than the head of G*S

yeah they are only keeping 10 delivery positions across 5 centres. Replacing about 40 staff and more TUPEing in. I don't think Jed would TUPE but he serves a lovely pint

Jeez, now i AM confused

Ok, stay with me on this one.

My company have all but folded with the loss of all hands, but they have left a huge gaping void across the region as nobody else is delivering in this area.

I had a very successful interview one day after leaving my job with a very specialised employment agency who said that they would have only been able to offer me 'ad hoc' work in the specialism i was working in before, but as my previous company have disappeared the agency is now deluged with work in this specialised area, and have nobody on their books who has specialised qualifications to do it.

The agency has now offered me work in this specialism for the long term forseeable future for almost double the hourly wage than i was on before...

And where will i be working ?

In the exact places that i have just left !

Chaotic times of the work programme ? or just basic supply and demand ?

I'm now faced with going back to work in the same places with the same staff in them that i have only left last week for more money ! One of these establishments bought me prezzies and a leaving card last week as they were upset i wasn't going to be coming in there anymore.

If i turn up there next week i may have to give the prezzies back :)

LOL @ anonymous don't knock it and congratulations. Take it even if you do have to give the prezzies back.

Wouldn't suprise me if the agency is announced as a specialist subby for G4S by next week....

Its the weirdest TUPE transfer in history...the employees have just made the company redundant.

My head hurts....Employment law is being rewritten as we go along

As for the prezzie question,

I took legal counsel, and it seem that as i have already eaten the chocolates, i am in breach of the 'felicitation under deregulated gift entities (consolidation) act 2011'

Otherwise known as the F.U.D.G.E regulations, sneaked under the radar by the con-dem(n) coalition in early 2011 whilst no-one was looking.

It would seem i am liable for a spell in the (G4S run) big house

At least i will get to vote against grayling whilst inside....

Chris Grayling told the House of Commons on Monday that:

... all bar four of the contract package areas for the Work programme are fully operational; that many thousands of claimants have already been referred to the programme; and that the first two job outcomes have been achieved in one contract package area, where the provider was particularly quick off the ground.

Just thought it was worth sharing! :)

Anyone care to say who that provider was and how they managed to achieve two outcomes on the first day of referrals?

That's easy. The 2 customers already had been given the nod about their employment before they went to the W2W provider. More than likely in the time that they last signed on and their appointment with the provider. During the induction, they would have explained that they had been accepted by their new employers but still had to attend the work programme in order to get their last dole payment. The provider simply claimed the outcome.

@Steph- a little pedantic of me I know but technically a job outcome is not claimed till 26 week sustainable (JSA) or 13 weeks (ESA) so Chris Grayling was not being transparent (how can he claim job outcomes when the definition is redefined to the new sustainability criteria)

Yep, my point exactly ... and I love a bit of pedantic! :) The provider would have to be extremely "quick off the ground" to get a job outcome on day one. Good to see our Minister is clear about the payment mechanism and outcome definitions.