TUPE Work Programme
Submitted by Phoebe on Thu, 13/10/2011 - 9:27pm
Can anyone answer this scenario...........if someone was TUPE'd from an FND provider to a Work Programme sub-contractor, and then the sub-contractor loses the contract due to performance failure, would the TUPE staff be TUPE'd again to the next provider or made redundant??
I think TUPE would not apply as the difference here is poor performance (or underperformance) and not contract movement or takeover as a result of tendering.
Thanks Smurf.
Just a small reminder, for issues like this, take advice from your union or a competent legal professional. However good, anonymous people on the internet may not know all the wrinkles.
The railway example (like East Coast) has had contracts removed from companies for lack of performance, with the staff moved over to a temporary public sector contractor so the trains keep running.
if the work/contract is ongoing then you are tuped to the new provider.
I have been tuped twice
hope this helps
Phoebe I think we all run the risk of confusing the heck out of you as on this point. You already have three different interpretations / points of view and I feel a resurrection of the confusion that seemed to reign on various other threads as soon as the T word got mentioned. I shall agree with Paul.Bivand and say take advice from someone such as a competent HR professional. I think the underlying principle is it will depend on the circumstances.
Thanks everyone...it's just a hypothetical at the moment - just wanted a general consensus. I think the answer is that nothing is cut and dried in the sector we work in and there is no easy answer!! I shall wait and see what happens!
I find it quite remarkable, that given the number of needless redundancies
and the vast amount of employers by-passing the TUPE legislation and Merlin standards, that there has not been a joint effort by effected staff to form a group of like minded, mistreated workers.
Working for a 'charity' in east london myself and a number of my colleagues were told we would be transferred over to one of the huge providers. On the day after work programme go live on the 14th June we were told the big company had reneged therefore we were all redundant this was following a charade of us having to re-apply for our jobs and jumping through hoops to please our paymasters. Needless to say the only staff remaining are those who have mastered the art of brown nosery or were in such difficult circumstances that the paymasters used their vulnerabilities.
I would be interested in any individuals or groups who have:-
Taken legal 'class action' against their former employers;
Individuals who have been mistreated;
Individuals who were TUPED then made redundant;
Individuals who have been TUPED, and have had their pay, conditions reduced;
Any one who has views about this situation;
Anyone who has contacted the government or Chris Grayling, or raised a campaign;
sid
Phoebe - the issue is have raised is not as clearcut as it may seem and I would repeat Paul B's recommendation of seeking union/ professional advice. Indeed, if you are not a member of a union and feel you may be two or more months away from TUPE you may be advised to join now so you can access the union legal depoartment later.
sid - there have been a few attempts to 'take on' some employers who mistreated staff during the TUPE process. Thankfully, many were above board and dealt with staff professionally and sensitively, but there were sadly a few cases where employers behaved in an unethical and insensitive way. Some of these cases are now at employment tribunal stage and we will have to wait and see if those affected are treated fairly and reasonably.
Similarly, a number of people wrote to their MPs and Grayling without any effect. Sadly, the majority of people working in the sector remained silent during the culling and we were unable to establish any sizable campaign to contest many of Grayling's assertions.
Tacitus. I agree with your comment regarding some employers not dealing with TUPE in a professional and sensitive way. Some Employers/Primes chose to ignore TUPE, and even what they had indeed written in their bid for the work programme. As for writing to MPs and Grayling, this I know has been met with disinterest and the response from DWP has informed staff, that should they face redundancy, then they can access "Rapid Response support from JCP".
This is a joke, these people have experience in assisting the hardest to help customers back in to work, and would not be in this situation if it wasnt for the introduction of the Work Programme.
This porgramme has resulted in the loss of quality staff, who have knowledge and experience within welfare to work and their local communities.
I am sure time will tell, if indeed this programme delivers all that it promises.
Due to the way a number of us have been treated and we are taking legal action against our former employers and some of the primes.I would be very interested to hear from any individuals/groups who have/are taking legal action. I think that we may be able to support each other in very difficult times against unscrupulous companies and employers.
Quick note: people taking legal action should take legal advice about evidence-gathering. Not as simple as first appears (as usual with the law).