Mandatory work scheme does not improve job chances, research finds

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/13/mandatory-work-scheme-gove... Glad it is not just me who thinks the WP is useless . Been on it for month no help at all i have complained to ****** now thy are avoiding me ... It is time to get JOB- CENTERS back to what they are for ... I just want to work but i am not joking there is nothing out there. i am due a breakdown. [Moderated]

Hi Logan5,
What do you want to do and in what area are you?

i am looking for anything have applied for loads of stuff but only part time i am in Ayr in Ayrshire. Have has 4 advisers at ******* and to be honest no help so went to the manager. Was hoping to get back into Opencast work but price of coal has halved so lots of pay offs. I am really struggling i need anything full time to keep wolves fron the door each week is harder and harder for me. Sob story i know but area i am in is not too good. Will need to sell car soon and that will really hurt my job prospects. local Job-Center have been super to be honest phoning me with jobs and stuff so can't fault them,

Mandatory Work Activity isn't the Work Programme. It isn't designed to get people into work, but that discussion has been done to death on here on numerous occasions. Just thought I'd make the point to save someone else the trouble.

Logan5 aka viaduct2012 ?
Same area, ingeus, 4 th advisor, same writing style !

And almost the same opening line from George !!
Interesting that jcp are " phoning with jobs and stuff" where have they been in the last 12 months, seems they can't have been that good if you have ended up on The Work Programme.

George will now send links for jobs, tell Logan to apply, the company will be impressed with his attitude and offer a job, the provider will then pay for the training needed over the next year or so, job sorted, logan has made his Choice and George has helped yet another disillusioned job seeker.

And TEREC will still be a dormant company, with nothing new on it's web site!

@Voice

"Logan5 aka viaduct2012 ?"

???????

Are you being fair to Logan5? Or are you just leaping to conclusions without having any credible basis for doing so?

you will see there is a question mark(?) at the end of it, thus it is a question not an assumption nor conclusion. My post would have been worded differently if I was making an assumption or leaping to a conclusion.
Quite a few people leave the site but come back under a new name, georgel being one such example.

I was asking the question and drawing attention to the fact there are clear similarities, draw your own concusions or make your own assumptions, I feel the similarities are sufficient in my mind to ask the question therefore I believe there is credibility in what I have posted.
I still do not get why you feel the need to question almost every post, query, question on here, but hey that is your right I guess.
There, are you fully satisfied as to my "motives", have I explained it enough for you?
Hopefully Logan will clarify.

Have a good day

What do i need to clarify ?

I want no part in your fights, Just views from the people who are in and work with the Work Programme.

Hi dave100 & Voice of WP

All I am trying to do is help, which is a lot more then both of you are doing and if Logan5 wants me to send some info of what is happening in Ayrshire then I will do my best to help him.

logan5 - straight question, can you confirm if you posteed on here as viaduct?
straight answer please

No....

GeorgeL that would be super as not having much luck. looking for anything fulltime part-time no use to me. Cheers

I'm not suprised that the MWA doesn't actually help people into employment - I don't think it was intended to. I think more aimed at punishing people for being unemployed and to provide print for the right-wing tabloids so the government (and the previous one) could say "Look! We're giving the lazy sods a right good kick up the backside!. But what worries and disturbs me more about the current push for free labour and who is benefiting from it. Under the banner of "training", more and more employers, mainly in the retail sector, seem to be exploiting this supply of free workers and with the government going to expand the MWA anyway, I feel it's going to get really ugly.

You may be interested in reading the government's paper on work experience. http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN06249

It's quite interesting as it goes back to 1979 and provides a quick summary of the different programmes that have included an element of work experience. Work experience isn't new - it's been a key feature of programmes for over 30 years, with varying degrees of success (StepUp and Future Jobs Fund seeming to be out in front).

But remember success depends on what your aim was. As Felix says, MWA wasn't designed to help people into employment. Is it a success? Well it has saved the treasury money - nearly a half of people signed off (albeit for short periods) and only a third of those referred actually started, so they didn't pay the claimants benefits, sanctioned a number of them so had a reduced benefit bill, and only paid the provider for a third of referrals. The treasury will feel that that's pretty much a success.

Logan5 - you say you need full time, but you may have seen a post on here from someone who has three part time jobs so is working more hours than most full time people. It may not be as straightforward but keep your options open.

Hi Logan5,
Can you tell me what radius you are prepared to travel and what towns this would include? What would be your ideal job with the experience that you have?
If given the help and backing would you start up your own business and if so what would that be?

The document about MWA that was published by the DWP themselves earlier this week appears to be the one in the link below:

http://statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/adhoc_analysis/2012/early_impacts_...

The DWP document appears to say that the contractor who has been hired to deliver the MWA locally should not be referring the JSA claimants for any sort of "work" that does not benefit his/her wider community.

The DWP document also stresses that travel expenses between the person's home and the person's place of "work" whilst on the MWA scheme must be reimbursed by the contractor, ditto any additional childcare or similar costs that the claimant might incur whilst on the MWA scheme.

The DWP document looks scruffy, which made me a bit suspicious about whether or not the document is real. However the link to it looks respectable and I know that my local JCP has been told to use very scruffy, very poor-quality recycled paper even for JCP letters that are meant to be sent to a potential employer, so I guess that the scruffy-looking DWP document is just another victim of the "cost-cutting" exercise.

Of course it looks "scruffy" it is line with the whole programme.

Yep - It's real. Certainly our local provider has found it a struggle to place people. The individuals are naturally reluctant to engage with it as it is all 'stick' and no 'carrot', hence the traditional 'community benefit' placements find them too much of an administrative burden and a nett draw on their resources. We were asked to get involved, but chose not too. We placed people on the old Flexible New Deal 'Mandatory Work Related Activity' and found that difficult, but there was an element of hope in terms of the employability aim of that. We found this a step too far in terms of our aims as a charity, which are not to deliver what is in effect a 'punishment' programme for the DWP.

Hi GeorgeL. I notice you are keen to provide advice and guidance to jobseekers on this forum, is this the main element of your business?

If so, do you also provide your services as a delivery partner to any of the primes on the Work Programme or other government programme? And if not, how do you make money?

Sorry if I have misunderstood your business, but I'm keen to get a clearer sense of what you do, why and how.

@ Tyn

We found this a step too far in terms of our aims as a charity, which are not to deliver what is in effect a 'punishment' programme for the DWP.

Glad to hear it - would that all charities felt the same.

Thank you for your honesty in describing MWRA as "punishment". Presumably you would describe the CAP in the same terms.

The punishment of the unemployed for being unemployed seems to be ratcheting up apace.

No doubt to appease the readers of the Daily Mail.

Surprised to see that you hadn't noticed I put this on the Indus Delta front page, with the correct link.

You may want to read the following analysis from the Director of the National Institute for Economic and Social Research, Jonathan Portes.

http://notthetreasuryview.blogspot.co.uk...

Is anybody remotely surprised that MWRA does not help people back into work? It's function is mainly punitive so by forcing people to attend somewhere they don't want to be to do something they don't want to do is unlikely to see them make a positive impression on that particular employer, nor is it likely to change ingrained behaviour in the individual.

I've said on another thread that I'm glad my employer did not "win" MWRA for our CPA.

Personally, I think MWRA is a WOMBAT.

(Acronym day today).

@Paul.Bivand

Thanks for the link to Jonathan Portes' blog. One of the newspapers mentioned this blog uesterday but the paper provided a link that didn't seem to lead to the actual blog the journo had referred to. The newspaper's link only led to one short paragraph that didn't seem to say anything much!

So we seem now to have some evidence that MWA is ineffective (and is to be expanded as a result!). How long before we start to see evidence that the same is true of the WP as a whole?

A very, very long time, it is here to stay, get used to it

MWA is largely pointless. I've not heard a convincing argument to the contrary.

WP is here until providers walk away from it, otherwise it will run until 2016 when the contracts expire, or the coalition collapses, a general election is called and an incoming Labour led Government pays billions to compensate for contract termination and puts something else in it's place which will be as despised (by many of you) as Work Programme is now and New Deal, FND, Resource Centre, Support Contract, Pathways and however many more were before WP came into being.

In other words, it's here and it's likely to stay that way. And people will be unhappy with it, the Government and the providers.

Personally, I'm not happy with many aspects of Work Programme, but it would be more successful if jobseekers attended sessions, listened to advice, accepted that an hour's commute is not unreasonable, did not hold out for the perfect job, want driving jobs when they're banned, care jobs when they've got GBH convictions or want to work in retail but refuse full time jobs at Gregg's because they want to work for Boux Avenue, where there are no vacancies at present, despite the fact they are both retail. Gregg's is beneath them, although they haven't worked for two years.

That was my day today guys. And no, I didn't sanction them. They did that all by themselves. I don't take pleasure from it but some people should get jobs in dialysis because they are brilliant at taking the p out of you.

I'm glad you're all keeping up with the news ppl, you're making it difficult for me to keep 1 or 2 steps ahead!

>A very, very long time, it is here to stay, get used to it
The money will have run out a very, very long time before that, get ready for it.

Most of this mandatory work scheme is based on the nonsence idea that up to 50% of those on jsa are actually 'working on the side', as reported yesterday.
Well the quickest way to prove it then, is to simply roll out all of the 70,000 placements ASAP, - and get it all over with - think of the savings.
At last something I agree with!
The best bit is that CG has now painted himself into a corner!

Please note that a few above are getting MWRA (Mandatory Work Related Activity) and MWA (Mandatory Work Activity) mixed up. MWRA was an integral aspect of the former 'Flexible New Deal', it was something we delivered and was very much an employment skills gaining activity. MWA is the current scheme that is not linked to the Work Programme with clients referred directly to it by Jobcentre. I'm not getting in to the 'rights' and 'wrongs' of a scheme established to identify those who are not genuine jobseekers, so far as to say 'it wasn't for us' and fell outside our charitable objectives.

@Tyn
Thanks for the clarification. Actually I did know that but a rogue "R" got into my previous post.

@ Voice.
I fear you may be correct when you say

A very, very long time, it is here to stay, get used to it

Unfortunately, if present form is any guide, this means years and years of expensive failure.

Very, very, depressing.

you are assuming it is failing, I would argue that it is working.
Stalemate but we agree it is not going away any time soon :-)

Hi writebetweentheeyes

Please cheer up!

My personal belief is that if the present Govt tries to stick it out until 2015 before they call the next General Election, by then they will be left with the rump of a "Work Programme" scheme. I don't think that enough of the Primes will be willing to continue to lose money indefinitely and I think that a much larger number of charities and not-for-profit organisations will pull out of the whole thing than has already happened hitherto.

In the meanwhile, I think that the whole thing is likely to become much more bureaucratic than it has been hitherto, as predicted by Professor Finn in his evidence below:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmpubacc/uc18...

Thanks LC
Have read some and will read more at my leisure.

I see that we not only form part of "consignments" sent from DWP to provider but can also be "spot purchases".
Makes one feel like a slave on the block.

I think it won't be too long before we see some severe pressure being applied to the Govt/DWP by the providers.
Maybe they will argue that they are doing part of the function of the JCP in checking that service users are fulfilling their JSags and so they should be paid more for this. It's only a matter of time before someone realises that there's duplication of effort here and stops the "signing on" at JCP - replacing it with a similar regular "sign on" at the provider.

If this happens I demand a royalty.

Yes I'm in the 50+ club, a man, not in the South East (and not willing to move there). Think this puts me in the category of will never work again.

you have a lot to offer writebetweentheeyes so don't give up. There is a lot out there just have to look at what you want to do.

Bobcratchett
Best summing up I have read in a long time, loved it, very truthful and straight to the point. Brilliant

@ bolb cratchett
Lol similar day to me then