This rings no bells at all with me. A lot of funding is only aimed at people with low skill levels, but the only restrictions on benefit receipt and training I know of are the 16 hour rule and the related requirement that people be ready for and actively seeking work.
"The 16 hour rule applies to most adult and further education courses but not to higher education courses. i.e. degree, HND, DipHE, post-graduate courses. The definition for higher education courses is much less clear and will usually depend on how the course is defined in the prospectus. i.e. ‘full-time’ or ‘part-time’ rather than on the actual course hours."
So there is a difference in further education and higher education regarding JSA. I hear JCP advisors a lot talking about 'signing off if you are doing a level 3/+ course', but have not actually seen regulation stating it.
Jobseekers Allowance (JSA) for students
The general rule is that you cannot get JSA for the whole duration of your course including vacations if the course is a full-time one. This can be a complicated area so if you are thinking of applying for JSA it may help to get advice from a benefits specialist first.
Some general points are:
if you are a part-time student you will still need to show you are available for work;
if you are a full-time student you can get JSA in certain circumstances;
if the course is in advanced education (for example a degree, HND, certain higher national diplomas) you can get JSA in the vacation if you are available for work and have a partner who is also studying full-time and either or both of you is responsible for a child
so, again logically doing a degree course itself (whether is part time or full time) is an exclusion from JSA.
What counts as part-time?This will depend on the level of your course and the number ofhours you study.You will count as part-time, if you are 19 or over,in further education studying up to ‘A’level,BTEC,access level or equivalent for 16 hours a week or less.....
The Decision Maker's Guide is generally the best place to go for the detail on benefit rules. RightsNet is a specialist (subscription-only) support site for benefit advisers. I've done my best below, but I am not a trained benefit adviser and my work might be horribly wrong. Also, bear in mind that joint claims are hideously complex and would require a very on-the-ball benefit adviser to understand all the nuances.
I've had a quick look in the DMG and found the following in Chapter 20. The reference system they use is a five-digit number starting with the chapter and ending with the section, hence 20003 is Chapter 20 section 3:
JSA - basic conditions
20003 People are entitled to JSA if they
1. are available for employment and ASE and have a current JSAg but see
1.1 DMG 20007 where a person is in receipt of a training allowance
1.2 DMG Chapter 21 where a person is participating in the first stage or the
second stage of any of the EZ programmes and
2. are not in remunerative work and
3. are not involved in a TD2 and
4. are capable of work and
5. are not in relevant education and
6. are in GB (except for certain temporary absences abroad) and
7. are under pension age and
8. satisfy
8.1 the contribution-based conditions for JSA(Cont)3 or
8.2 the income based conditions for JSA(IB)4.
Note: Special rules apply to share fishermen (see DMG Chapter 27) and joint
claims for JSA. Serving members of the Forces are not entitled to JSA5.
Given that 'relevant education' only applies to young people under the age of 20 (20050), and that training allowance appears to refer to work-based learning and similar provisions and not to e.g. degree funding (20008), the only relevant requirement I can see is 'available for employment'.
This is supported by Chapter 30, which is the specific chapter dealing with JSA entitlement of 'students, young claimants and their partners'. There is a fundamental difference between someone who is studying, and someone studying full time (a 'F/T student'). For example, the guidance defines someone studying at the Open University as a student but not a F/T student (30132). The full definition is a matter for a Decision Maker and takes up pages and pages, but roughly speaking:
Who is a Full Time student?
30148 [see memo DMG 49/08] A person other than one in receipt of a training allowance or a qualifying young person or child under specified legislation1 aged 19 or over but under pension age, is a F/T student2 if they are
1. attending a F/T course of study which is not funded in whole or in part by the Learning and Skills Council for England or the National Assembly for Wales or
2. undertaking a course of study which
2.1 is wholly or partly funded by the Learning and Skills Council for England or the National Assembly for Wales and
2.2 involves more than 16 guided learning hours per week (seven days) as stated
2.2.a in England, in the student's signed learning agreement
2.2.b in Wales, in a document signed on behalf of the college.
This then leads on to the answer to your question! Check out 30206:
Full Time student eligibility for JSA and IS
30206 Students (F/T students) are not normally eligible for JSA or IS during the period of
study. This is because for
1. JSA, they are not regarded as available for employment
2. IS, they are not a prescribed category of person.
There are lots and lots and lots of rules around course dates, exemptions for particular funding streams in Scotland, course dismissal and the like. That's the meat of it though: the only difference between higher and lower levels of study is that determining whether the study is full-time or not becomes more difficult, and may require a Decision Maker to take a look at it. There is NO ban on higher level education while receiving JSA, only on full-time study while receiving JSA. Now please don't ask me about the rules for joint claims.
To get JSA, your course has to be classed as part-time and you have to say you would give it up for a full-time job. So even if it's only 8 hours p/w, if it's classed as Full-Time, you couldn't claim (or at least your claim was suspended).
However, in our office, we recently had a case of someone doing a Full-Time college course who was 'allowed' by the DMA section as they said they'd give it up if a job came up. Not sure if this was a mistake, or if DMA have been given new instructions.
Your first description fits with the rules in the DM Guide, ahomage. The 16 hour rule applies to the 'learning agreement', not to the reality of delivery, and there are pages and pages of rules about what the learning agreement is, but essentially it's the official status of the course.
The second one does sound like it could be a mistake, unless as you say there's been a change in the rules that's not noted in the bits of the DM guide that I read.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 13/03/2009 - 5:46pm.
Having tried to apply for JSA as a joint claim (my better half is at uni) and been refused and advised that I can only claim contributions based JSA as a single person - I can safely advise that university students are definitely NOT allowed to claim JSA.
However, if you are a full time student and a lone parent, you can claim Income Support in the summer, although JCP will only begin maklng payment from a specific date (which you would need to check with them) and not the date the summer term ended.
Hi Anonymous, sorry to correct you there, but as I said repeatedly above, joint claims have different rules. Single people can claim while taking part-time courses, even university courses, as long as they're officially part-time and they remain available for full-time employment.
This rings no bells at all with me. A lot of funding is only aimed at people with low skill levels, but the only restrictions on benefit receipt and training I know of are the 16 hour rule and the related requirement that people be ready for and actively seeking work.
Thanks for the very quick response.
I knew about the 16 hour rule, but then there is this - let me quote from http://www.southwarklearning.info/resources/05StudyUnemp.doc
"The 16 hour rule applies to most adult and further education courses but not to higher education courses. i.e. degree, HND, DipHE, post-graduate courses. The definition for higher education courses is much less clear and will usually depend on how the course is defined in the prospectus. i.e. ‘full-time’ or ‘part-time’ rather than on the actual course hours."
So there is a difference in further education and higher education regarding JSA. I hear JCP advisors a lot talking about 'signing off if you are doing a level 3/+ course', but have not actually seen regulation stating it.
another site http://www.youthinformation.com/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=89831 says:
Jobseekers Allowance (JSA) for students
The general rule is that you cannot get JSA for the whole duration of your course including vacations if the course is a full-time one. This can be a complicated area so if you are thinking of applying for JSA it may help to get advice from a benefits specialist first.
Some general points are:
if you are a part-time student you will still need to show you are available for work;
if you are a full-time student you can get JSA in certain circumstances;
if the course is in advanced education (for example a degree, HND, certain higher national diplomas) you can get JSA in the vacation if you are available for work and have a partner who is also studying full-time and either or both of you is responsible for a child
so, again logically doing a degree course itself (whether is part time or full time) is an exclusion from JSA.
apologies for the detailed comments, but this is driving me mad a bit and have been searching the whole net.
I also found this: http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:i4hvcTSktjwJ:www.uel.ac.uk/students...
What counts as part-time?This will depend on the level of your course and the number ofhours you study.You will count as part-time, if you are 19 or over,in further education studying up to ‘A’level,BTEC,access level or equivalent for 16 hours a week or less.....
The Decision Maker's Guide is generally the best place to go for the detail on benefit rules. RightsNet is a specialist (subscription-only) support site for benefit advisers. I've done my best below, but I am not a trained benefit adviser and my work might be horribly wrong. Also, bear in mind that joint claims are hideously complex and would require a very on-the-ball benefit adviser to understand all the nuances.
I've had a quick look in the DMG and found the following in Chapter 20. The reference system they use is a five-digit number starting with the chapter and ending with the section, hence 20003 is Chapter 20 section 3:
JSA - basic conditions
20003 People are entitled to JSA if they
1. are available for employment and ASE and have a current JSAg but see
1.1 DMG 20007 where a person is in receipt of a training allowance
1.2 DMG Chapter 21 where a person is participating in the first stage or the
second stage of any of the EZ programmes and
2. are not in remunerative work and
3. are not involved in a TD2 and
4. are capable of work and
5. are not in relevant education and
6. are in GB (except for certain temporary absences abroad) and
7. are under pension age and
8. satisfy
8.1 the contribution-based conditions for JSA(Cont)3 or
8.2 the income based conditions for JSA(IB)4.
Note: Special rules apply to share fishermen (see DMG Chapter 27) and joint
claims for JSA. Serving members of the Forces are not entitled to JSA5.
Given that 'relevant education' only applies to young people under the age of 20 (20050), and that training allowance appears to refer to work-based learning and similar provisions and not to e.g. degree funding (20008), the only relevant requirement I can see is 'available for employment'.
This is supported by Chapter 30, which is the specific chapter dealing with JSA entitlement of 'students, young claimants and their partners'. There is a fundamental difference between someone who is studying, and someone studying full time (a 'F/T student'). For example, the guidance defines someone studying at the Open University as a student but not a F/T student (30132). The full definition is a matter for a Decision Maker and takes up pages and pages, but roughly speaking:
Who is a Full Time student?
30148 [see memo DMG 49/08] A person other than one in receipt of a training allowance or a qualifying young person or child under specified legislation1 aged 19 or over but under pension age, is a F/T student2 if they are
1. attending a F/T course of study which is not funded in whole or in part by the Learning and Skills Council for England or the National Assembly for Wales or
2. undertaking a course of study which
2.1 is wholly or partly funded by the Learning and Skills Council for England or the National Assembly for Wales and
2.2 involves more than 16 guided learning hours per week (seven days) as stated
2.2.a in England, in the student's signed learning agreement
2.2.b in Wales, in a document signed on behalf of the college.
This then leads on to the answer to your question! Check out 30206:
Full Time student eligibility for JSA and IS
30206 Students (F/T students) are not normally eligible for JSA or IS during the period of
study. This is because for
1. JSA, they are not regarded as available for employment
2. IS, they are not a prescribed category of person.
There are lots and lots and lots of rules around course dates, exemptions for particular funding streams in Scotland, course dismissal and the like. That's the meat of it though: the only difference between higher and lower levels of study is that determining whether the study is full-time or not becomes more difficult, and may require a Decision Maker to take a look at it. There is NO ban on higher level education while receiving JSA, only on full-time study while receiving JSA. Now please don't ask me about the rules for joint claims.
Oh gosh. Just read your new comments - I was working on my answer above the entire time you were writing them. Hopefully I've answered it for you now.
My knowledge of p/t students is this:
To get JSA, your course has to be classed as part-time and you have to say you would give it up for a full-time job. So even if it's only 8 hours p/w, if it's classed as Full-Time, you couldn't claim (or at least your claim was suspended).
However, in our office, we recently had a case of someone doing a Full-Time college course who was 'allowed' by the DMA section as they said they'd give it up if a job came up. Not sure if this was a mistake, or if DMA have been given new instructions.
Your first description fits with the rules in the DM Guide, ahomage. The 16 hour rule applies to the 'learning agreement', not to the reality of delivery, and there are pages and pages of rules about what the learning agreement is, but essentially it's the official status of the course.
The second one does sound like it could be a mistake, unless as you say there's been a change in the rules that's not noted in the bits of the DM guide that I read.
The 16 hour rule is barking anyway. It should have gone years ago.
Having tried to apply for JSA as a joint claim (my better half is at uni) and been refused and advised that I can only claim contributions based JSA as a single person - I can safely advise that university students are definitely NOT allowed to claim JSA.
However, if you are a full time student and a lone parent, you can claim Income Support in the summer, although JCP will only begin maklng payment from a specific date (which you would need to check with them) and not the date the summer term ended.
Hope this helps
Hi Anonymous, sorry to correct you there, but as I said repeatedly above, joint claims have different rules. Single people can claim while taking part-time courses, even university courses, as long as they're officially part-time and they remain available for full-time employment.