People being grumpy about New Deal
Submitted by Daniel on Fri, 15/01/2010 - 1:40pm
This forum contains comments and discussion moved from elsewhere in the site that is primarily complaints about New Deal. FND has its own discussion elsewhere to prevent confusion between the two. There's an article outlining the difference between FND and New Deal here if you'd like to know more. Just for the record, moving comments here doesn't imply endorsement of them.
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haha interesting points. It isn't a rant and are factual in content from my own experience. They have absolutely no awareness of Data Protection and are extremely unprofessional. You can argue either way but neither you two have had any experience with them. If you feel the content is libel in content feel free to remove all my comments on this article otherwise it be best not to point out that maybe my experience has influenced my comments - of course it has, and it can go either way a positive experience ends in a praise and a negative experience results in criticism.
welfare to work vendettas.. when jcp pay money out for me to go to a w2w provider and that provider does not do what they are paid to do i for one dont like it, what should we do shut up and take it ? its a disgrace the money that they are being paid for what? getting a few people jobs that most would probably get themselves anyway. the vast majority dont get a job.
I may not be affiliated with YMCA but do have personal experience of YMCA and many other private training providers, and believe it or not I totally appreciate where you (FND and highpark1) are coming from.
I know that too many people attending welfare to work provision get a raw deal and I see first hand the overcrowding, poor resources, insufficient staff, jobsearch activities being boring and irrelevant, clients "just doing time". And you're right ... it isn't good enough. It frustrates me that clients are receiving such a poor service and I do my best to make a difference.
But there are hundreds of individual staff (within YMCA, A4E and others) who are totally committed to supporting their clients and do a great job in helping them address personal problems, find job opportunities, develop skills, gain qualifications, and who make a real difference to their lives. Statements that flippantly dismiss a whole organisation, also dismiss the work of these people who are providing a good service against the odds.
And without wishing to offend those staff who do a great job (and believe me there are plenty out there), the welfare to work industry needs a shake up, even more than FND is giving it. On the whole (apologies for the generalisation) staff need to be better trained and managed; provision needs to be more structured, relevant and engaging; employers need to be more closely involved; and providers need to take far more notice of clients views to improve their delivery.
I get frustrated when Ofsted give providers good grades when I know that many clients aren't getting the level of service that warrants those grades. The new Ofsted inspection will be taking far more notice of clients views and it will be harder for providers to "silence" clients who want to have a say. Maybe this will help improve things ... maybe it won't.
In the meantime don't be so ready to put down a whole company because of the attitude or actions of a handful of people (even if it's a big handful). At the same time, don't just "shut up and take it". Think about who you can talk to, what you can say and how you can use your experience constructively to influence those who can make a difference. Bang on some doors ... but do it politely! :)
I know that all w2w staff or providers are not bad, I have said it on here before I went to a w2w provider in liverpool 2 years ago and I can not say a bad word about them, they didnt leave you in a room for 13 weeks looking at the walls.
Think about who you can talk to, what you can say and how you can use your experience constructively to influence those who can make a difference. Bang on some doors ... but do it politely! :)
NO ONE LISTENS NO ONE!!!!! IF YOU COMPLAIN TO JCP THEY EITHER IGNORE YOU OR THEY SAY SOMTHING LIKE THE W2W PROVIDER HAS ASSURED US THIS WONT HAPPEN AGAIN, AND IT JUST HAPPENS AGAIN AND AGAIN!!! JCP SHOULD MONITER TO MAKE SURE THAT THE W2W PROVIDER IS DOING WHAT THEY ARE PAID FOR AND IF THEY DO SOMTHING WRONG THERE SHOULD BE CONSEQUENCES
When I was at A4e Edinburgh last year a woman from High Riggs jobcentre visited, and actually spoke to some clients (in an overcroweded room) to ask about their experience of New Deal.
I'm sure this must have gone on in other parts of the UK and with other providers. So JCP can't pretend they don't know what really goes on, they do.
I along with others complaind to jcp about a number of things 1 thing we complained about was job application forms being found in the office from 4 weeks ago not sent out jcp came in for 1 week in the mornings to make sure the mail was sent out 5 days they came, that was it, we never seen jcp again at our w2w provider. I know quite a few jcp staff and they know how bad w2w is they will not speak out for fear of losing there jobs. for well over a year now i have been looking at w2w I have talked to w2w staff all over the world and the ones that talk to me are ok even they say w2w is not working
I never heard of the mail thing going on. And I can understand JCP staff not wanting to speak out. I suppose the best we can hope for is a change of government, not that I'm a tory. Hopefully the state of public finances will result in a drastic cut back in many of these schemes later this year.
No change in government is likely to improve the situation as its the civil servants that run the show. Having worked in DWP for a number of years, changes in government didn't really impact on what we did on a day to day basis or how we were managed.
Things will improve under FND, the main change being that it isn't a full time programme so clients won't be made to "jobsearch" for 30 hours a week. But from a monitoring point of view the onus will be very much on the prime contractor to make sure all aspects of the programme are working and that clients are getting a good service. It's up to those prime contractors to listen to clients and improve the service.
But utlimately you're right, until someone in JCP stands up to be counted it's a closed shop. That's not the providers fault and is entirely down to JCP, so maybe that's where the issues really are - providers who fail clients are indicative of a system that has failed. Complaints need to go to a contract management level in JCP rather than the local office (although finding the right people is the needle in the haystack - to start with ask for details of the Third Party Provision Manager).
Maybe Daniel and Claire can get the new CEO of Jobcentre Plus (Darra Singh) lined up for an interview and put the challenges to him!
Third Party Provision team been there done it. in February the third party provision team merseyside district wrote to me about a complaint that i made total let down.. its was a4e have informed us. a4e have assured us.etc and the same stuff that i complained about last year is still happening!!!!!.. for me the best is the ico i made a complaint to them on the 14th September last year about about a data access request that i made to jcp about a job that i got while at a4e i wanted to see the form that i filled in about my job and a form when i left a4e am still waiting for them, the 7th July 2009 i made the data access request!! ico have wrote to me the other week they say they wont be able to investigate it for quite a few months!!!! its been nearly 4 months now??? this is what I we are up against..
The New Deals have been the
most successful innovation in the history of the UK labour market.
During the last 10 years, the New Deals have helped more than 1.8
million people into work.
Highpark,
Let me have an email contact address for you. I may be able to help you.
please no barm pots.. [Moderation - don't put email addresses on the site! I'll pass on individual contacts on request]
I see my email has been removed why? if we are not allowed to put our email addresses here can you please moderate all the posts that have email addresses on them.
[Moderation - Site rules is why]
well i have had a quick look i have found 3 email addresses on the site ??
[We allow organisational email addresses through as they're important for e.g. recruitment, but not ones for people speaking in a purely personal capacity. I've offered to act as an intermediary in this regard. I suggest you take up that offer and stop complaining at me for going out of my way to do so]
just had a look at a letter from 3rd party provision team merseyside that they sent to me last year its says from April 08 to date A4e have managed to find employment for 42% of customers and have achieved positive outcomes of 80%..... however A parliamentary answer earlier this year revealed that A4e had got just 20% into work during 2008-2009.. my letter is from 25th febuary 2009
There's some useful stuff in these topics, and some fairly robust defence of the more defensible aspects of delivery from people involved in it. Also acknowledgement of the issues that have led many customers to have unhappy New Deal experiences. I'm hopeful that I'll be able to change the name of the topic at some point, but not as long as people are posting about how certain providers are just clueless.
makes sense
Lets see what happens when we have a new Government!!!
Scotland has already experienced a change of government from Labour to SNP at Holyrood. And Alex Salmond is both a MSP and MP, nice work if you can get it!