Would you like an Indus Delta for adult learning?
Submitted by Daniel on Tue, 25/08/2009 - 11:37am
I've been in discussion with someone about setting up a sister site to Indus Delta, offering much the same information and services but for the adult learning sector. I don't have the necessary understanding of the sector, so I'd be reliant on input from other people.
What I'd like you to tell me is, would you find such a site useful, and would you be interested in contributing to it? Any ideas or suggestions also welcome.
I think a sister site would be a fabulous idea.I work for an adult learning company and the information that would be useful for anyone new to the industry or to get suggestions and ideas would be who the accrediates which courses, this would assist anyone who is involved in the FND or JCPSC contracts and they may not have all the information to hand. Which adult learning industries offer which sort of training, courses etc. With the black box that is FND and JCPSC some providers may be struggling to find the courses they need to assist their clients.
Thanks Laney. It would be useful to get a few more views, although I suspect there is a gap at the moment.
An industry researcher writes:
Thanks for the feedback! The rough plan at the moment is to use one site, but have different 'themes' or 'zones'. That way people could use the same login and content could be published across both areas when appropriate. Likewise the newsletter could be adapted to let people choose the themes that suited them.
Existing members are around 50% managers in welfare to work providers. Most welfare to work providers are also adult learning providers, so there's a high degree of crossover with the existing user base. There are also lots of members who work for colleges, some LSC folks, Ofsted inspectors and so on.
Daniel
I think a sister site would be a very good idea. LSiS and the Excellence Gateway are primary FE sites, both providing a central notice board resource but, more to do with issues relating to practice.I use the Skills network site related to adult Lit & Num which is very good- take a look and evaluate them.See what they don't offer...
1) a sister site would enable DWP and FE sector to interact.
2) provide a forum for managers and staft alike to interact -rant.
3) this site is very easy to use.
I have learned a lot form this site and, dare say others from the FE sector would use your sister site... news spreads fast in FE esp at CPD events.
Would be funny if we typed a message on sister site and our managers replied ...lol
Although such a site may be informative, it may prove to be confusing to (say) A4E Admin Staff who, in reviewing such a site, would presume that their skill level was on a par with Academic Staff rather than below par with the level of Job Centre Plus Staff.
However - keep thinking.
Wow. That's the first time somebody has managed to insult almost everyone who reads the site quite so efficiently. Funnily enough, the most recent university I attended lost my references twice, forgot to post my course completion certificate, screwed up the timetables on a regular basis, and employed the least competent delivery staff I've ever encountered.
Prior to that, I attended a course at the local FE college, and managed the dubious feat of attending more often than the entirely unconcerned tutor, who didn't even plan what he was going to cover in the classes when he could be bothered to turn up. Speaking as a former teacher, since you obviously wouldn't trust my competence as someone from a 'non-academic' industry.
Getting back to the point, bringing together employment and skills will presumably result in increasing equivalence between the two. While this is already a reality for the many people working with joint skills and employment providers, there could evidently be some challenges along the way when it comes to building mutual respect.
Gina
To a degree, I agree with you comment about skill level of JCP staff .
I know of a quite a few people who work for JCP with a basic skills of Entry level 2. To their managers, as well as sending job seekers for basic literacy, you need to send some of your staff! Sign the skills pledge! opppps or are Goverment bodies excluded ?
Daniel, I think it's a great idea to have the 2 elements closely connected. Integrated Employment & Skills has even permeated some Jobcentres as a way of working, but in my experience few W2W providers integrate their provision with what the adult learning sector has to offer. Even providers who run both often have them in separate divisions and there seems to be little joining up internally let alone with FE and VCS providers. Your site would be really helpful... not that it isn't already!
Thanks Nicky! From speaking with people researching how to get the two working together better, a large part of it may be aligning the outcomes so that e.g. skills providers get paid for job outcomes (and employment providers get paid for skills outcomes?). However, regardless of where the motivation comes from, there still need to be mechanisms to bring the two closer. I think Indus Delta could be one of those, but I'd need to learn more about skills along with everyone else in the welfare to work sector!
Hi there, I have a question that i hope someone will able to answer, clarify, put my mind at ease etc..I am about to be TUPEd to a new Primary FND provider in the Midlands. My current job is quite unusual and matching me in my new company could prove difficult. Does this mean that once i have been moved over that the new company will make me redundant if i do not fit in to their FND model? There must be other indus reader that have the same concerns not just in the West Midlands but across the UK?
Apparently i am still covered by TUPE but they dont know what to do or where to put me...YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!We are not all personal consultants or job search tutors (not that there is anything wrong with these jobs by ANY means)
and here's me thinking that my specialist skills would hold me in good stead for FND...
I look forward to hearing any advice, responses from people looking at the same fate.
Yours...Slightly worried for my future and not wishing to become a job seeker
TUPE'do Junction
ooooops....i think i put this in the wrong place...but please find it in your hearts to respond anyway
Heh. You should really log in and create a new discussion topic for this kind of question. My understanding of TUPE is that if there is no equivalent job, and the other available roles are not appropriate, then redundancy applies. It's possible that you could be offered a non-similar role if you're qualified for it. As always, it's TUPE, so don't take my word for it and don't sue me if it goes pear-shaped.
Daniel,
Yep, skills-type thing would be good. This site's been a breath of fresh air for W2W as well as being very useful and informative so another one on a related theme would be welcome.
I have long been thinking that a site that combines or links the varying elements of skills and employment delivery and policy is a good thing. Why stop just at adult learning skills? Maybe add links through to research (such as the Nuffield Review engaging youth outcomes), as well as higher level skills and teaching and learning strategy.
This site has been so useful and informative that a site that links cross-over topics covering all areas of education, skills and employment would enable practitioners and managers to get a real understanding of all education and welfare issues - and find more practical support hopefully.
Wendy I agree !
To include an 'Adult Learning Zone' to the site would be the best idea to my mind, as I work in this Sector, with a Local Council. I assess and advise clients referred from JCP and other providers as to their options in terms of training and learning. It means switching 'hats' constantly and tring to link together many disperate groups of people. I can vouch for the fact that many in Adult Learning don't understand the Employment Sector and Vice Versa. Anything to inform us all is to the good - especially when there seems to be some snooty sniping going on! ( JCP staff will NOT have 'Entry Level' skills - all have minimum quals, and are assessed and updated as necessary ). I am also a former teacher, Daniel, and am a Post Graduate, and have worked for a while with a provider you get many complaints about. Whilst I would admit many faults, the Admin staff and others are not Neanderthals straight off the previous course!
Think its a good idea to provide a forum for jobseekers but it needs to stay positive.
Indus delta in Sindh (Pakistan) is on verge of unnatural demise due to man-made tactics being used by Punjab - another province of Pakistan.
Our elected President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Syed Yousaf Raza Gillani both have no interest to save Indus delta from ruination. What a shame!!
Ruination of Indus delta resulted in mass migration of one million people, degradation of land, tremendous increase in poverty and unemployment, environmental disaster, destruction of mangroves & flora and fauna, tremendous reduction in sea food export by Govt of Pakistan and much more!
Sea intrusion has resulted 2.6 million acres of land in Sindh inundated. This situation if remained unchanged, the historical city of Thatta and Badin two districts in Sindh would disappear within next 20 years as per briefing by Sindh Govt to the visiting Senate Committee on water headed by Senator Lashkari Raisani.
Punjab is not allowing to implement "Water Accord - 1991", 19 years after signing the Accord in which release of 10MAF water downstream Kotri is guaranteed to check sea intrusion and meet the drinking and other requirements of people living between Kotri and Arabian Sea.
All Organizations working for Human Rights and NGOs are requested to stop the highhandedness of Punjab as Punjab now wants to build Kalabagh dam to turn Sindh into desert.
Three out of four provincial assemblies have passed about 10 resolutions against construction of proposed Kalabagh dam in Punjab.
I appeal to the world and particularly NGOs and Human Rights Commissions to come forward and check highhandedness of Punjab against Sindh and take measures to save Indus delta from unnatural sad demise other it would be unnatural and environmental disaster in Sindh (Pakistan).
Also pressurize Govt of Pakistan not to ruin Indus delta to 'please' Punjab.
Mohammad Khan Sial
http://sialtravel.webs.com