Unemployment Falls by 51,000 - Proving there are JOBS OUT THERE

Overall, there were 29.28 million people in work by the end of the first quarter and this was up 166,000 on the previous quarter. This is certainly welcome news for all, is it not?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18518286

We have always said that there are JOBS out there and I think this news proves it

I agree, there's literally 100's of jobs per week going on Direct Gov in West Yorkshire alone, let alone the Jobsite, Reed, CV Library job boards etc etc.

What there seems to be is a lack of applicants!

I think the government needs to think about training acadamies of some sort to re-train the populous. I see so many IT based, skilled engineering and many other skilled positions being constantly advertised the mind boggles!

"But the claimant count - the number of people claiming Jobseeker's Allowance - increased by 8,100 in May compared with April, to 1.60 million."

These figures are certainly not welcome news for those new claimants of JSA...

"I think the government needs to think about training acadamies of some sort to re-train the populous. I see so many IT based, skilled engineering and many other skilled positions being constantly advertised the mind boggles!" - Xiko.

The Work Programme is more than capable of re-training the unemployed and upskilling the population, through its innovative 'black box' approach.

@ Sabrina.

I disagree. Having worked on the Work Programme, it's not set up or equipped to re-train & up-skill someone for a skilled job.

It will never be able to re-train an ex-chef to become an engineer, electrician etc etc. Nor is it set up to re-train someone to become an C++ (insert IT jargon and requirements here) engineer.

It can however take an ex-engineer, electrician, chef etc etc & train them to become a retail assistant, carer or at a push warehouse operative.

There's a severe shortage of skilled workers in this country & while there's jobs available, the government needs to look at a long term plan and maybe scrap the age limit on apprenticeships!

Chris Grayling's comment on the new figures is:

"Any fall in unemployment is very welcome, but I remain cautious over the next few months, given the continuing economic challenges we face."

Grayling clearly recognises that the new figures are not good enough to justify any gloating.

The data shows that Jobseekers are still getting jobs and although this is the 3rd decrease in unemployment in a row, I agree that Chris Crayling may be right to be cautious as there are many out there who are still having problems finding and gaining employment on their own.

He said "Long-term unemployment is the key employment challenge in Britain. That's why we've launched our Work Programme with a particular focus on helping the long term unemployed get back into the work place. "I'm confident that as time goes by it will make a real difference for them."

I think he means 'there is help out there too if you need it'

@xiko
There's a severe shortage of skilled workers in this country & while there's jobs available, the government needs to look at a long term plan and maybe scrap the age limit on apprenticeships!
................................................................

Really, I see regular postings from people claiming to be a skilled engineer etc but they still cannot get a job, something somewhere is therefore
not adding up

@ Voice of WP

Well, I can't answer for those people at all, but it doesn't change the fact that I see 100's of adds for engineering personnel of a variety of disciplines all the time.

If these people are getting turned down for jobs, then maybe they need to speak to someone or go over their interview with their advisor, see where they went wrong. You can't just walk into an engineering job nowadays.

"We have always said that there are JOBS out there and I think this news proves it"

No one is denying there are jobs, just not enough of them. 51,000 is a paltry 2% of the current unemployment figures the true figure is a lot more than 2.63 million.

I for one don't buy the skill shortage story if I wanted to return to site management now I would have to have a site management CSCS a SMSTS certificate and probably first aid, the SMSTS course alone is about £500, plus not many firms want 56 year old site managers despite the experience.

I know plenty of skilled tradesmen that can't get a start on site because of the new regs, from the feedback I get the CSCS card system has done little to improve H&S on site, half the workers can't speak English and rely on a 'ganger' to translate, companies always have and always will bend the rules when penalty clauses are looming.

The new system of NVQ's is in my opinion inferior to City & Guilds not that we ever took much notice of paper qualifications for trades anyway, ability is what counts not pretty bits of paper, I have never been asked for my C&G in all of 38 years on site, now if I did not have NVQ level 3 I would be regarded as not much better than a labourer.

@ Xiko
"Well, I can't answer for those people at all, but it doesn't change the fact that I see 100's of adds for engineering personnel of a variety of disciplines all the time.

If these people are getting turned down for jobs, then maybe they need to speak to someone or go over their interview with their advisor, see where they went wrong. You can't just walk into an engineering job nowadays"

.....................................
An advert does mean they cannot fill the roles, it may mean there are plenty jobs available that are being filled, so does not necessarily equate to no people to do the job.
I beg to differ on "You can't just walk into an engineering job nowadays", if as you state there is a shortage and you meet the laid down criteria then surely it is a job seekers market thus they could "walk into a job". Different story if the person has a lack of the right experience, poor attitude, is lacking in interview skills etc.

@Greyham
If you can please tell what help is out there I would be eternally grateful.The Director of my WP has E-Mailed me "There is no money for training fullstop" I am on my 5th Advisor in 6 months, I have redone my CV 5 times as each Advisor wants to tweak it. If my WP is unaware of this help ,I would love point them and myself in the right direction. Thanks in advance.

And on another note if 51000 people found employment in the last quarter and there are 565000 plus on the WP and if we give the WP credit for finding all 51000 (which I doubt) can anyone figure out (1)how many people are referred monthly to the WP (2)What percentage of this equation can be credited to the WP.

@xiko. "Having worked on the Work Programme, it's not set up or equipped to re-train & up-skill someone for a skilled job".

Agreed. The low up front fees and wait until sustainability payments come through make it too risky to invest even moderate sums on providing specific and industry recognised qualifications. To risk paying out on training for someone could who fall out of work before sustainability payments start is an unattractive gamble for providers and the institutions that back them.

All of which is why there is now a changed rule that people on the Work Programme can access Government funded (SFA) courses.

Under previous programmes there was a double-funding rule that stopped programmes using the further education system to provide training.

While Scotland takes a different view on that, in England (and Wales as far as I know), there is now no bar.

My WP has told me in Wales ESF is not available,but I will check on SFA(never heard of it)

@Logan5
You sound in the same boat as me my friend. The WP is a waste of time my CV has been done 5 times now with each adviser slating the last saying they had done it all wrong. I would love to retrain as a plumber or get my qualifications in IT but i have asked and been told NO.

No doubt some on here will say we are lying but honestly you could not make up how pointless it is.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Can you guarantee that a plumbing or IT qualification (with no actual work experience) would guarantee you a job?, if not I can see why your provider would not wish to spend money in this area.
If you are seriously stating that 5 different advisors have "slated" your CV that their colleague did for you only to re-do it then something is seriously wrong. of course it is good practice to have different CV's highlighting different areas or strengths, however that would not involve a complete re-write.
If your situation is as you describe then I would argue you have a case fo a complaint.

@Voice of WP

Voice my point is if i retrained as a Plumber i could start out myself. I.T i have been fixing Computers from around the early 90's i fix friends and families also worked subcontracted to IBM years ago. The only thing holding me back is papers nearly got stung with that Computeach mob few years back.

My issues and complaints have fell on deaf ears so far now the WP are ignoring me or so it seems not heard from them in 4 weeks.

I want to retrain but unless you fund it yourself there is no help in Scotland as far as i know, WP adviser said that's what your ILA is for lol.

I am one of the folk that is stuck 34 no real jobs in area lost car due to being poor and no i don't have sky nor do i drink or smoke.

Jobs on the system part time for like 10 hours and stuff no good to anybody and without transport multiple part time jobs would not work either.

So how can the WP help me and be realistic Scotland i'm in.

Then you ned to have a self employment plan, no one will fund anything on the basis you might get work. Get a mentor, work up a business plan, speak with Georgel as he seems to be able to offer start up advice and possibly help with funding.
The fact you may have fixed computers or worked at IBM many years ago is not really a strong enough basis for funding in this sector either.

@Paul.Bivand is right. You can now have a WP provider referring a WP customer onto say, an employability qualification funded by Learn Direct and then referred onto a Skills Support for the Unemployed programme all delivered by the same provider. The provider gets the attachment fee for WP, another lump of money from Learn Direct for delivering the qualification and then another lump of money for the the Skills Support contract. If that person goes into work there are potentially two job outcome payments for the provider, depending on when they got the job and how long they stay in it.

For some providers having access to another funding option to refer their WP clients to has been the basis for their financial model and how they maintain a profit. If you can claim for one customer under two or three different programmes by referring them elsewhere within the business then that makes financial sense and if that approach gets more people back into work and off benefits then the view would probably be "why not?". The funding for WP is such that providers with WP only will outsource quite a bit to other providers anyway, so one way or another this money will be spent.

Of course, Voice is correct. Obtaining a qualification is not a guarantee of getting or sustaining employment, but it's fair to say that in a competitive jobs market having a relevant qualification helps. But be realistic about the type of qualifications available. If there's a charge of £9K a year for our future doctors and teachers to go through University before they start their vocational training there's not much hope of getting a freebie to become a plumber or a sparky.

When I first signed on JSA a year and a half ago,my advisor was brilliant and was able to get me a training course on a 360 excavator,she was replaced but not before she had secured funding,seven months on, after asking every two weeks and several advisor later I was informed that all funding had been shifted to the WP.Once on the WP I was informed this was not the case(not the WP's fault) Complained to local JCP=Denied Took it to the District JCP=Denied Contacted my local MP/Ombudsman=Upheld End result?Training reinstated? A one off £50.00 compensation with a limited letter of responsability.Only took 18 months,on the JCP site 9 vacancies available for 360/180 operators.

So did you receive the training in question

"there's not much hope of getting a freebie to become a plumber or a sparky."
There used to be, they were called apprenticeships, then Thatcher made us all self employed and that put paid to training. Oh I forgot the old government training schemes, six months intensive and a free pair of boots, lo and behold we have a tradesman.

No funding not available,I was found partially at fault for not acting sooner, still confused on that one.My WP advisor said the most he would be able to do was a CSCS card,but that was 6 weeks ago and the lady that handles it was off for a few weeks and he was on holidays last time I went in ,so we all attended a job search instead,going in tomorrow and will press the point,but to be fair I know getting the funding will not be easy,not his fault.@WP last time I was in (and yes I am a nosy B)there was a lot of activity going on with apprentices(youth) and they were handing out £30.00 vouchers to the youngsters like candy(Tesco for clothes)does this activate a payment as a job out come to the prime?(not the vouchers)

To clarify my previous post - I used the word profit a few times. I should clarify that in any region there will be charities, colleges and NFP's with multiple contracts as well as limited companies.

With regard to free training I'd say that in an ideal world people of all ages would have access to apprenticeships. Unfortunately, as a nation we have been spending more than we have earned for decades, We can all agree to pay higher taxes (that includes Jimmy Carr) or accept that not everything is free. Debates about what the Government spends it's money on other than unemployment benefits and training are best left to The Guardian or the Daily Mail's websites, depending on your persuasion.

You won't like this at all, - but never mind!

One of the reasons jobseekers can't get jobs is because many of the jobs advertised don't actually exist. 490,000 advertised on jcp, can be only 200,000 available.

> It is only the 'live' jobs that are actually open for applications for jobseekers, as
>' suspended' jobs are defined by the DWP as:
> "those neither closed nor currently available to jobseekers. In the majority of cases > vacancies are suspended because the submissions limit or the closing date has been
> reached but there is outstanding follow up of the vacancy required before it can be
> closed."
http://fullfact.org/articles/jobs_vacancies_Grant_Shapps_live_suspended_...

I don't know why IDS thinks there's 500,000 'new' jobs advertised on jcp every week.

Greyham
You keep saying there's JOBS OUT THERE.
Jobrapido.com, Reed, CV Library, alone show 10s of 1000s of employment related vacancies, instead of struggling with 3 part-time jobs, why don't you just take one of them and earn £40K doing something you enjoy and have lots of experience in.

Voice
> Really, I see regular postings from people claiming to be a skilled engineer etc but
> they still cannot get a job, something somewhere is therefore not adding up

You're the expert you tell us.

Xiko
> I see so many IT based, skilled engineering and many other skilled positions being
> constantly advertised the mind boggles!
Mostly agencies collecting cvs, I don't think there's much of a skills shortage.

mkmky
> (2)What percentage of this equation can be credited to the WP.
I have an estimate but it's classified!

@grappling - Really, I see regular postings from people claiming to be a skilled engineer etc but
> they still cannot get a job, something somewhere is therefore not adding up
You're the expert you tell us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The answer is there are no problems with these jobs, they get filled, new ones get created and advertised but there is an ASSUMPTION they cannot fill them. I think this is bourne out by the fact I rarely see highly skilled people on wp, so they either have so m uch money that they do not claim JSA if they lose their jiob or they do not have a problem getting am job.

you then state "Mostly agencies collecting cvs, I don't think there's much of a skills shortage"

On the one hand you seem to disagree that there is no problem ie my post then you seem to state there is not a skills shortage (withing engineering.

I might be misunderstanding you but I am not sure if you are saying there ARE jobs or there is a problem.

@ Voice
Believe it or not we are all grown up so why not let the readers judge the relevance of my posts rather than censoring (please note correct spelling!) views merely because they do not conform to those of the site owners and their tame contributors?

First time I have been labelled "tame" - such inconsistency.
You miss the point, there are rules, you abide by them or you are banned/posts removed. You cannot argue that whatever you write has the right to stay if it is lies or could be deemed inflamatory.
A lot of comments I see are certainly not "grown up". In fact some of your deleted posts were pretty childish in tone/content
How do you know that readers have not complained directly to ID about your posts and they are then taken down by ID? so many assumptions.

Read the site rules as you have an opposing view.

@Grappling you said
‘You keep saying there's JOBS OUT THERE. Jobrapido.com, Reed, CV Library, alone show 10s of 1000s of employment related vacancies, instead of struggling with 3 part-time jobs, why don't you just take one of them and earn £40K doing something you enjoy and have lots of experience in’

The answer is that; Although I am struggling as you put it with 3 part-time jobs I have NOT GIVEN UP and am still looking and applying for better work as you suggested. I do not know if this is across the board but vacancies in my area within my particular expertise of welfare to work have now become rare, but I am still looking. The jobs that I am doing now however are equipping me with many diverse skills and experience that are improving my employability across a number of sectors. This is increasing my choice of career and widening my options for future development.

In Welfare to Work although I met a lot of people who wanted to work and I enjoyed helping these people succeed, I also met many more people that had no intension of working and played the system to avoid work. To be honest I was actually starting to get fed up dealing with people who slithered, ducked and dived to avoid doing anything at all to get work and watching them get away with it, while watching others doing everything they could. In the W2W industry you need to be dedicated and have a belief in your customer and what you do to help them, when you start to lose that dedication and belief then it may be time to move on.

I have welcomed the change my 3 jobs have given me and I think this has been reflected in my work. Last week one of the employers (office) offered me an increase in hours which has now allowed me to let my cleaning job go. My 2 remaining employers seem to be very pleased with me and both are offering excellent development opportunities that may result in me not going back to W2W at all but taking on a new career in another sector full time.

@mkmky – You said – Yesterday
@Greyham
If you can please tell what help is out there I would be eternally grateful.The Director of my WP has E-Mailed me "There is no money for training fullstop" I am on my 5th Advisor in 6 months, I have redone my CV 5 times as each Advisor wants to tweak it. If my WP is unaware of this help ,I would love point them and myself in the right direction. Thanks in advance.

I think @Bob Cratchett has answered the question on access to training although I believe training without experience is not always the answer as we found in the 1990’s under the New Deal when training was available sector wide. I do agree however training could help your chances of an interview, but as we found when we trained everyone up in FLT it will not always guarantee a job.

Please do not be put off by advisers changing your CV. From what I can see you have a lot of transferrable skills acquired when you were running your own pub. CV’s are a working document and you and others should never be at a point when you think it is completed. If your present cv is not working or getting you interviews then it would be wise to look at it again and again and even again until it does the job you expect it to do. I believe that a CV never reaches the point of completion and you must always look to continually improve it. I myself have several CV’s one for each particular sector I am applying for. I am always making improvements to all my CV's as I identify key sector words employers are using. I even have some of my CV's in an on line application form format so I can cut and paste into on line applications. I have found this very useful and effective saving a lot of time when applying on line.

You also have said on here that you would even take a job as a restroom attendant. I really do admire this as it proves you are thinking on the right lines considering all the options and that you realise the importance of getting a foothold back into employment as the first step. I really do wish you luck and I hope armed with Bobs info on training will eventually help you get what you want. The right HELP does not always come on a plate, sometimes you have to do a bit of work to look for it.

Trying to get this back to the subject.... (hopeless task I know).

When you're talking as the original post did, you need to look at the (very large) churn and flows rather than the headline numbers.

The Office for National Statistics do some experimental survey-based figures. See http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/labour....

The rest of it goes into more detail.

I've done a Working Brief article for the next issue on this issue.

@write, @Logan

Another thought for those wanting access to training. If you feel that your WP advisor is not knowledgable enough go to see a National Careers Service Advisor (formerly Next Step). It's free, you may learn nothing new but on the other hand you may find that a college course you thought was beyond your reach has huge concessions for the unemployed
and is more affordable than you thought, or there are other providers out there able to deliver fully or hugely discounted training in subjects the colleges aren't.

As all the advisors are trained to at least level 3 in IAG with the majority at level 4(or above) you may find the approach and knowledge to be different to what you may have previously experienced.

Obviously WP providers have staff trained to that level but for Next Step Advisors it's a minimum requirement.

Hi Paul.Bivand

I've clicked on the link you provided. I don't understand any of the contents since it seems to involve numbers, graphs, flow-diagrams and all the other things I am no good at! I need an Idiot's Guide, written in words! I can do words!

Since you have prepared a Working Brief (which I'd probably also have no hope of understanding) are you able to provide an Idiot's Guide as well, please? Just roughly, what does the new ONS document mean/suggest, please? Thanks. LC

If you only have two states - employed or unemployed, then a 50,000 growth in employment is the net effect of 450,000 unemployed people starting work and 400,000 employed people becoming unemployed (very roughly).

Each quarter the balance changes slightly. So if we have 2.5 million unemployed (v rough) and 500,000 unemployed starting work, that's 1 in every 5 unemployed people starting work every 3 months.

Over one year around 4 in 5 of the unemployed (most likely more) start work, but are replaced by a flow in the opposite direction.

The 'most likely more' is because this is only doing snapshots every 3 months - there are a lot of jobs that last less than 3 months - fruit-picking etc where it's in the nature of things.

It's more complicated to think about with the three boxes including inactivity.

You can think about inactivity as a bit of a cycle.

Someone is working, has a long illness, counted as inactive when ill, and loses job. Gets better, starts looking for work, counted as unemployed. Gets a job, counted as employed.

Same sort of cycle if you stop work to look after children.

Some inactive start work directly - like students who start work just after finishing studies - when studying (only), inactive, not unemployed because can't start work when applying, start on finishing studies.

@greyham,first off you did not answer the question...What help is available? Living in Wales ESF and SFA are not available. On the same subject I have now secured (on my own) my third placement,with the help of my WP advisor, I will start getting a CSCS card (fair play at my suggestion they are having the software installed so anybody can complete the written part of this at a minimal cost,they do listen) the vetting process has begun (potentially up to 40 placements,no set time as they will hire asap) my advisor is chuffed,in his words"the bar keeps getting set higher,the resources are dwindling and my targets are not being met" Yes we are getting chummy,but he is sincere and has jumped through as many hoops as I have,the key here is we are now working together towards a common goal.Part two..When I mentioned ESF or SFA he did not have a clue it was not in the brief,any help with regards to Adult Training in Wale's would be appreciated.

On another note regarding CV workshops,they have changed the way this is processed,I hate to say this I really do...Simples..Instead of talking about how to fill out a CV they have reduced the class size and are now actually doing a CV,like I said Simples..ouch

This morning I took a number of posts down so I must remind you of the terms and conditions, specifically the following:

  • We will remove any obviously commercial postings (advertising material or links) or obvious “spam”
  • We actively encourage discussion and expect debate but we will not allow personal attacks and abuse

I'd like to remind you that if anyone continuously breaches the terms and conditions they will be removed from the site.

I think you should impose a rule that if people are banned they cannot simply come back on under a new name, of if they "exited" before the ban the same should apply.
You know who they are and you must have the technology to check IP addresses etc to ensure this does not happen, makes a mockery when they come back under another name and peddle their nonesense, this in turn does wind people up when they are trying to defend the sector and normally ends up getting out of hand.
Alternatively, have a delay before posts show, this way they can be checked by a mod BEFORE publication, thus only acaptable posts get published. Other sites do this and the discussions are always sensible and balanced.

logan
"ganging up" is not bullying, robust responses are posted when someone has an attack that warrants response, the fact a few people reply to the post is not really ganging up.
I have had my fair share of people "ganging up" on my posts, I take it on the chin and defend my point.
The email does not say "I see bullying" it states "I have noticed people do gang up..." completely different.
If the site is so bad why come on here, if you do not like people defending The Work Programme then you are free to stop responding/posting and go somewhere else, it is your choice but please do not throw wild accusations around just because your point is attacked, that is what sites like this are about.

You have an opinion based on limited exposure to one provider in one area of the country, some of us have a very big view across a number of providers across the UK, thus we will clearly have different and often opposing opinions.

your comment "I can't wait till yous (sic) are all shut down what a waste of time and money" is likely to attract defence as those who work in the industry will clearly defend their position and argue it is not a waste of money, best to think before you post then you may not attract such criticism, not having a go just offering advice.

mkmky
The black box approach is misunderstood as being able to anything, anytime and is changeable at the whim of the Prime, sorry to burst your bubble and bring you back to reality - This is simply not true.

All bidders had to clearly set out how they would engage with Customers, what Customers could expect etc etc etc.
On this basis the black box is effectively closed at award and the winning Primes must now run their service along the lines agreed in the bid. They cannot simply disregard what was accepted in the bid eg they all had to publish their complaints process, this process is what must now be followed, a Prime cannot now decide to implement an entirely different process during the contract.
The bids are available for viewing on the DWP website (with certain commercially sensitive info redacted, thus if Customers took the time to look they would see what their "journey" should entail.
The goals are CLEARLY defined, all Primes know exactly what is expected of them, what parts are not clear in your mind?
Your last comment is unjustified and completely wrong.

Very good @WP I have read a few of the goals stated by the "Primes" it is vague very vague ,as a point of interest what can you offer your customer? by this I mean a defined course of action,not holding hands and blowing sunshine. Example: Please.

Voice - agree totally 11:15 am, you saved me some words (although posting on forums is an addiction that some people can't control).

To everyone else who is complaining that there is no training. There is training - it just isn't being paid for by the Work Programme providers. Some are funding short cheap certificated courses eg CSCS but the WP was never set up to retrain a generation in totally new fields and produce highly qualified engineers out of someone who has only ever worked in retail (just an example to make the point).

Why don't you read the Work Programme Provider Guide Chapter 13 regarding the other programmes you can access while on the WP. http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wp-pg-chapter-13.pdf

You could also do well to have a look into Apprenticeships. They ARE available to adults. This government replaced Train to Gain with Apprenticeships so why not approach an Apprenticeship provider and see if they can help you get in with an employer, or at least go and get some advice. http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/Be-An-Apprentice/The-Basics.aspx

Unfortunately some WP staff don't know what is available in their area or what they can access. Only this week I had a discussion with someone who was training some staff for a prime who, a year into delivery, were totally oblivious to the fact they can access all SFA funded provision. Quite frankly that isn't good enough, and that provider is letting down it's customers. It won't be the only one. So while good providers will be ensuring they access the right provision for their customers, we have to recognise that some really aren't doing the job well enough at the moment.

Bob mentioned National Careers Service. If you want advice call them. So what if you're on the Work Programme! Don't expect your provider to do everything for you or to know everything. Find as many local organisations as you can with as many pots of money as you can and see if they will help you. There are plenty of small organisations who have gained funding to deliver support or training. Get out of the house and knock on their doors. What's the worst that can happen - they say no, and you get sore feet. But you may strike lucky and can even take that information back to your adviser so they can use it to help someone else. Your provider is not the enemy (although that may be hard to believe sometimes) and cutting off your nose to spite your face is rather foolish.

And I do sympathise with those of you who have had your CV done, redone, and redone again by the same organisation. Unfortunately I have seen this on many occasions in my time. The worst thing is when the fifth CV produced by the same company is still pretty rubbish! Most staff are not trained in CV development, have never been involved in recruitment, and honestly have no real idea when it comes to CVs. And my biggest bug bear is that they should't be producing CVs for people anyway, they should be giving them the knowledge, tools, and support to be able to develop and maintain their own CV. On the whole they don't, because it's easier just to produce one for the customer. But in my twenty years in the industry I think I've only seen a handful of really good CVs produced by provider staff.

LC - Chris Grayling says pretty much the same thing every month when the figures are released - track back over news bulletins and see for yourself! Happy job hunting y'all.

If this is so,and maybe I am the only individual in the solar system that this has has been a problem for:Why does my Advisor or his supervisors or at least a brochure spell out what is on offer? It is like an Easter Egg hunt,ffs.

stephw2w,looked at the apprentice site it does not include Wales,thanks for the try.

I take it you've had a look at Careers Wales (http://www.careerswales.com/adults/server.php?show=nav.2187). Not sure how good it is - this is where you get the duff end of devolution as I don't think you have access to quite the same range of options, same for Scotland. Sorry!

Very true,very true,I have contacted career wales and although very pleasant,nothing on offer for over 25.

We are snookered as they say. Just heading to sign on again depressing stuff. Oh the joys of being Scottish lol ...

@mkmky try pages 7 and 8 from Chapter 13 of provider guidance that stephw2w posted earlier. Might be of some help to you.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wp-pg-chapter-13.pdf

Also Page 5 covers some training info in Scotland that might help too for Logan5.

@mkmky The Welsh Assembly Government offer has increasingly differed from what is on offer in England.

In some ways they haven't followed England in reducing work-based learning. However, the names used keep changing.

Try http://wales.gov.uk/topics/educationands...

What I don't know (yet) is whether you can do this while on the Work Programme. In West Wales and the Valleys there are more options available in ESF-funded programmes like Want to Work. May not be applicable to your case.

The Careers Wales Beta website is very much better than the current one, though still being populated with information.

@paul,@Greyham,I do appreciate the tips,the problem as I see it are ,why don't the providers have this information?are they or at least there managers who are the well paid "Professionals" the one's that should be aware of all possible avenues? If not then what purpose do they serve? All points of view are appreciated.

Silence?

@ mkmky

because they all know if they cant put you through a course on the books they get no money so they are not interested,,, Shut up and be happy Get ya CV redone lol....

I have no clue how this WP is going to survive nobody likes going and everybody i speak to finds it useless .

Well it is time to agree,no responce why? because there is no answer,rhetoric? yes but no answers

Well it is time to agree,no responce why? because there is no answer,rhetoric? yes but no answers

Or none of the currently active members deliver in Wales?

@ Greyaham
to return to your original opening question:

his is certainly welcome news for all, is it not?

Well not really "for all". Good News for the 166,000 people now in work.
Unfortunately still leaves many millions without work (or without sufficient work).

A very small drop in a very large ocean.

No I agree but this is the third decrease in a row so it is a step in the righjt direction - -

*****Please agree with that atleast*******

@ greyham
Well actually I applaud any decrease in unemployment and/or increase in employment. The trouble I have is in the credibility of government statistics. It seems to me that the unemployment figures in particular have for many years been subject to political "massaging". You know the sort of thing - these people aren't really "unemployed" they're being "trained" because they're on this, that or the other "scheme" etc. etc. etc.
This is not a party political point - governments of both colours are guilty.
Years of this manipulation have inevitably eroded the credibility of the figures.

... As you sow so shall you reap.

@Voice

"I think you should impose a rule that if people are banned they cannot simply come back on under a new name, of if they "exited" before the ban the same should apply.
You know who they are and you must have the technology to check IP addresses etc to ensure this does not happen, makes a mockery when they come back under another name and peddle their nonesense, this in turn does wind people up when they are trying to defend the sector and normally ends up getting out of hand.
Alternatively, have a delay before posts show, this way they can be checked by a mod BEFORE publication, thus only acaptable posts get published. Other sites do this and the discussions are always sensible and balanced."

***************************************************************

All Mods, on ALL internet forums, have the problem that someone who has left the forum or who has been banned from it might return under a different user-name. I'm not an IT expert and the only internet discussion forum that I've moderated myself runs on V-Bulletin. I don't know whether Indus Delta also runs on V-Bulletin but I suspect that it doesn't.

"Banning" a user from returning depends on IT-Wizardry. I won't try to bore you with the technical details but it is not always possible to do as you have demanded and often it is not possible to do it at all. If the Mods try to be too aggressive about it, genuine newcomers can end up being banned for no valid reason at all. No competent owner of one of these forums will allow his/her Mods to go around banning new members of the forum because if one allows that, people will become fed up with the forum concerned and they will desert it in droves.

You then go on to suggest that all the contributions to Indus Delta should be pre-moderated before they are published. Almost NONE of the people who moderate internet forums are paid anything for the time & effort that they invest in looking after the forum concerned. Modding is usually done purely as a social favour to the owner of the relevant forum.

If you were allowed to have your own way about this, the result would be that someone could make a contribution today which might not appear on the public message boards until sometime towards the end of next week. By then, everyone has forgotten what the thread was about, new threads have been started and so forth.

The fastest way to kill a forum like this one stone dead is to get involved with trying to pre-moderate the contributions to it. If one tries to do that, people become bored with the forum concerned very quickly, so they take themselves off and join a competitor forum that is not pre-moderated. Once a forum has made the mistake of losing one of its members, that member is unlikely ever to return to it.

I suspect that you actually understand considerably less about how internet forums actually work than you imagine that you understand about the subject.

Why don't you spend £30 and join the new IEP group? I read on here that that group's website will contain a members-only forum. No dole claimant is ever likely to cough up the necessary £30, so the IEP forum should be capable of providing everything that you have said you require, should it not?

I belong to other forums where it is moderated and posts have a short delay, usually a max of 30 minutes before posting. The fact you posted a reponse 24 hours after the original and it still follows the original point shows it would work.
Indus delta is a commercial site these days since Daniel gave it up, it has staff so they are not on here for a " favour" as you put it. ID charges for commercial adverts on the site so is different from what you seem to suggest.
Sensible moderation will not kill a site, it makes it more readable and pertinent if we do not have to read some of the drivel that appears on here that has nothing to do with work/ benefits etc.
Banning an IP address in NOT that difficult, in fact it is what the majority of sites do, again you make assumptions re my understanding of how forums work. There were no demands in my post, just suggestions, once again lazycow spin is in evidence.
As for moderation taking a week?? What sites do you belong to that take that long?, I forgot it probably takes that long to tread the essays you post about nothing in particular, then again if it did take a week and they decided not to post nonsense then I guess it would be worth it.

You say
"Banning" a user from returning depends on IT-Wizardry. I won't try to bore you with the technical details but it is not always possible to do as you have demanded and often it is not possible to do it at all. If the Mods try to be too aggressive about it, genuine newcomers can end up being banned for no valid reason at all. No competent owner of one of these forums will allow his/her Mods to go around banning new members of the forum because if one allows that, people will become fed up with the forum concerned and they will desert it in droves."

Why would banning people deter sensible users, only people who flout the rules get banned, the vast majority of sensible people see that as a good thing, your point is let people spoil things, do not moderate, let people say what they want and run riot is a bonkers proposal. People leave sites that offer no value, why suggest anyone asked new members to be banned ? You are making no sense whatsoever

Moderation works, banning people works, no ifs no buts, simples

Simples? what is this forum for? A bunch of pissing and moaning? I was hoping for some constructive debate,either from the unemployed or the W2W that will soon be unemployed,be part of the soloution not the problem.

@Voice

Give it a rest.

Neither my own comment on this thread today or your reply would have become visible today unless Indus Delta had moderators on duty 7/7, preferably 24/7.

What you are really saying is that your personal preference is for pre-moderated internet forums. Nobody objects to your personal preference about this and nobody would be entitled to do so. However, the only sensible solution would be for you to abandon Indus Delta and confine yourself to the other forums that you belong to, which make you happier than you say Indus Delta makes you.

Indeed, there is nothing to stop you from starting and running a comparable internet forum of your own if you wish. An internet forum such as Indus Delta is actually only a database in IT-Speak. PHP is a suitable type of software and PHP is also available for free on the Internet. Just Google 'PHP' and you will be inundated with offers. A new forum is also a small forum, by definition, because it will not have many members to start with at least. There are loads of internet server companies etc who will host this type of forum for free. A tiny forum only requires a tiny bandwidth, so it costs nothing to set these things up.

The only thing required from the wannabe owner of an internet forum is a bit of effort on his/her own part, just to choose what type of free software to use and which free hosting-server to use etc. I know plenty of people who own internet forums devoted to my own particular hobby. I am aware that I could easily set up a new, similar forum by myself but, personally, I very much doubt whether I know enough about IT to be able to handle the "back end" of things adequately. (The back end is the IT-Wizardry. I suspect that these things require more of that than I, personally, possess!)