Down with this sort of thing - Providers, FND, welfare reform, work for your benefit
Submitted by Daniel on Mon, 23/02/2009 - 9:56pm
I've put this forum topic in as a placeholder, and will move comments that derail discussions elsewhere on the site to this location. This seems a better solution than deleting comments altogether. Note that comments moved here will not appear in the 'latest comments' box in the left hand column.
Not a penny off the pay, not an second on the day.
They should pay minimum wage, if I was unemployed my work ethic for 'work for benefit' would be very low. The slightest health & safety issue would be seized upon, the slightest wrong word would be deemed as offensive, the people running it would be swamped in paperwork and you wouldn't piss on one if they were on fire!
Why don't the government go the whole hog and herd the unemployed into concentration camps.
Sloganeering and Godwin's Law? On my site?
The unions might strike if it affected their members jobs but other than that you might have to forego your benefits to register a protest. The unions would be more receptive if these schemes dont poach others jobs and pay at least the minimum wage - they should do that at the very least.
If the propaganda about the workless is true that over generations they have lost the will to work then managing this part might be difficult. i am not convinced by the arguments of the right on the problem being widespread, problem families are a complex area(when i worked in bradford it was known that a few families can make life difficult for everyone - this is a social problem not just an employment or welfare benefit problem, a lot of the people i have spoken to are decent working people without a job or they have personal problems including mental health issues.
i personally have high blood pressure which was difficult to lose when i worked in a bank even with medication. When i lost my job at the bank i didnt leave the house for a whole month - i think i must have been ill. No one as asked me why i lost my job at the bank - it was because i was moved from a job i could do to one i couldnt and they did this deliberately. i was bullied too.
tony
Anonymous doesnt say if he works or not or if he is a personal advisor.
This discussion topic is a repository for comments that denigrate welfare to work, welfare reform, providers, JCP or politicians in an abusive or unevidenced way. Such comments will be moved out of wider discussion as they have no place there. It acts as a counterpart to the anti-claimants topic, which in turn holds offensive, repetitive or otherwise unconstructive comments about benefit claimants.
We're not impartial then? youre in favour of the current mad scheme? As no one ever thought that an alternative view might develop in the industry of a more workable scheme (that is one not based on payment for each person getting a job - in the current climate that is suicide) that doesnt threaten the future of their business. It looks like there is potential for the present scheme to be unworkable because the government wont release enough money and backbench mps wont support it. There is talk of 50% upfront and the last i heard it was 40%, this maybe nowhere enough. There is opposition to the providers getting more money. Many commentors say that nationalisation of the banks is likely very soon etc. We are in the third banking crisis or bail out already. This is relevant. The cost of FND maybe too high and the savings non existent. Am i right or am i right. THis is not abuse but could become fact. Please place this in a different forum if necessary this is highly relevant.
Indus delta is an appropriate name for GB's rear end policies.
In the foothills of the himalayas they have never heard of welfare to work.
Linked to this, is hubris. Chambers dictionary defines hubris as:- ove confidence, arrogance, such as invites disasteror, ruin.
Benevolent or vicious? you judge.
why were they so keen to take on contracts shorn of the largesse that carter and carter had. Suspicious that - New Labour as strong links with the north east - its new deal croneyism - eat your heart out Tony Blair. Someone was on the amke.
It's the disaffected that are driving these topics, not the sound bites from providers and DWP 'jobsworth' types.
Denying a voice to these people, which providers and the DWP already do, just shows who has the moral high ground!
Job outcomes here are 16%, well below DWP expectations, and long term (sustainable) employment is only 2%. The management here are a consummate failure!
I'm not saying who my employer is for obvious reasons.
Yes the key decision makers.
So a morally, intellectually and financially bankrupt government sneaks the welfare reform bill through parliament in a landscape dramatically different from the boom times in which it was conceived by failed, but 'tax payer saved' banker David Freud.
It's simply a bad time to be poor!
Are you looking for another job or have you written to gordon brown saying you think you could do a better job, i read the article in the financial times about David Freud. Harold McMillan was asked what bothered him and he said - events dear boy events. David Freud was a banker. Why did he work for nothing for LABOUR. Seems a shame that he comes from the same family background as Emma and Sigmund. i bet he didnt go to the secondary modern down the road and do woodwork instead of art. The country is in such a mess nothing would surprise me in the next month or two. Lets have an election darling preferably in May or June and get it over with. Tory boot camps - bring it on. WIth Gordon gone or a new government or cabinet things might look different. The tories used to be for getting rid of new deal and they are surely not going to spend more on it or as much as labour? We can see signs now of labour imploding just a matter of time darling. Can they afford to keep wasting all this money of yours on failed policies. i cant see this happening.
Yes I want out, but in the current economic climate that's not too easy.
Yes a election would be a good idea, if only so we get an elected prime minister because atm we have an imposed leader who's so morally and intellectually out of touch with ordinary people it's staggering.
You dont say where is? Spitsbergen?
When you say management do you mean key decision makers or the whole staff?
i think the regional figure for the east midlands was 30%, i couldnt find any mention of Carter and Carter or Intraining. i have been told not to waffle. what happened to carter and carter btw?
'I'm not saying who my employer is for obvious reasons'
Give us a clue by county
LA la la....fingers in ears....Government sponsored welfare "work programmes" - Urban programme? YOP schemes? YTS schemes? New Deal....all have bucket loads of stigma attached, are expensive and dont lead to work.
Blatant Governmental tools to firstly show a Governbment is tackling this social disease of unemployment and all the exciting ills that come with it and secondly to massage the figures to make things look better.
Bring back ILMs - they work, often hit 80% sustained outcome levels and are REAL jobs....La la la....Hello?
Carter and Carter programmes were mainly taken over by Newcastle college, who managed to buy them off the cuff in some backroom deal - saved the DWP re-tendering the contracts!
My cousin joined the army when he was young after a misdemeanour - it toughened him up and did him no harm as far as i can see. The beatles might have thought it was tongue in cheek but in the past it was a well trod path for people of low academic achievement.
I am not one of those and i have a good academic attainment and i know my IQ is good or reasonable ability to achieve up to degree or higher level.
An HNC in Computing (inv. programming in several high level computing languages) was a hard qualification to get i did while working full time in a bank. My academic ability is my strength (i am well read) but i also have practical abilities. A paid job (its important to earn money to survive!) is only one of my goals and i have never felt any guilt about claiming.
Jobcentre is broke and no need to make judgements about starting at the bottom -working towards the best deal for myself. i dont make judgement about rich tories anymore - no point -so i wish people would do likewise about struggling people. No one as ever helped me at least the state hasnt.
A4E ? - wasting your time defending the indefensible - if they were that good they would not have lost a significant number of contracts in the Greater London area - take note of my user name...its used for a reason!
Are some of these providers good value for the public purse - do they get people back to work in sustainable jobs - that is the only real debate surely. i put this comment here so it wont be deleted!
This phrase originated from the Miners Strike in 1926 when the employers eventually forced the miners back to work with a cut in pay which on top of an already bread line wage. This experience eventually led to the nationalisation of the mining industry after the war. Historical foot note.
Hopefully,this will get Press and next up Question Time?
I have been to them and I have to say.I was disappointed with the advisors at one mean provider?I will not name them even though they know its them,All I can say that some of these advisors get paid £31,000 a year for doing nothing and they dont have a clue and the goverment would be better of just letting these clients sign on,They pay these providers £1890.OO per client sign up,then there is the bonuses if they get you to "SIGN OFF" Even if its not full time work.Even if its only 16 hours doing charity work,they claim their bonus,
However,what really upsets me,is the fact,that after you have left the provider,they can still claim a bonus if you find your self a job after leaving New Deal programme,Surely thats just wrong.
Something must be done Now to stop these providers now.They are just here to name money and clients just dont have a say,Its like a meat market,you are sent to a provider on a New Deal Programme and there is nothing you can do about it and if you refuse to go,you loss your benefit.
Now they are sending people who are on the sick to another programme with the same providers and calling It "Pathway to Work" One company has just signed a contract and get 98,000 clients over the new 3 years and who knows what they are getting paid?This should be made public....After all its taxpayers money,also if you do make a complaint,It has to go via them and Not Jobcentre Plus or DWP,This has got to be 100% wrong.Some providers are just a law onto themselves and they dont care as they get paid in advance and if you dont do what your told,you get signed of the programme and you might even loss your benefit,but they pay nothing back.
Its disgusting.
I hope a programme can do it LIVE and get a hidden camera into these offices and you will then see the truth what really goes on in these providers offices.
Animals get treated better,as thats all we are a blank cheque.............
Billy
Did the provider mention the "BONUS YOU GET" if you find work or the interview clothes the travel passes or anything else you would need to find sustainable employment. Maybe you forgot to add this to your comment Billy.
JSA Conditions clearly state what you need to do if you want to claim this benefit, if you don't agree then simply don't claim it !!
For the record, I am a personal adviser and I work for one of "those providers" and I listen to this type of stuff on a daily basis. I understand and empathise with individuals and families who endure hardship because of unemployment but why blame the providers. Ask yourself what you are doing to find work on a daily basis before you start blaming organisations who are dedicated to moving you back into work.
Ask yourself where would you be if these providers did not exist, probably asking your adviser at JCP why He/She cannot speak to you for any longer than 3 minutes !