Censorship by Right wing think tank?
Submitted by consignment399 on Wed, 04/01/2012 - 9:57am
Why has the thread "CV, claimant refuses to provide one and quotes the Data Protection Act" been removed??
Is this down to censorship of this site by the right wing think tank - The Centre for Economic and Social Inclusion?
What are the nameless ones frightened of?
The Centre for Economic and Social Inclusion is not a right wing think tank.
It is independent between political parties and is about tackling disadvantage and promoting social inclusion in the labour market.
That's about finding out what works in helping people find jobs and promoting the results.
I'd think you'd need a strange point of view to find that right wing.
N.B We do actually think that employers should not discriminate against people with disabilities, therefore work for people with disabilities is an ambition.
A back up extract copy can be found here:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:r4yfNc_1-1MJ:indusd...
The Centre for Economic and Social Inclusion have proven it is not interested in Social Justice by it's efforts to suppress freedom of expression and by blocking access to discussion about the Data Protection Act.
@Paul.Bivand
Well now Paul - that would surely depend upon who the individuals are whose views are being promulgated by this body and whether their viewpoints are right wing or not - wouldn't it?
I find it strange that after 84 reads of this post yours is the only reply and even you have only sought to correct me about whether this "centre" is "right wing" or not. No explanation or refutation of the censorship allegation yet.
@Paul.Bivand
"N.B We do actually think that employers should not discriminate against people with disabilities, therefore work for people with disabilities is an ambition."
It is a legal requirement, not a mere ambition!
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/your-rights/disab...
If you look on the 'about us' section, you will find "Indus Delta is the UK welfare-to-work industry's most popular destination for news, discussion and online resources. "
Indus Delta is intended for the welfare-to-work industry - the people whose job it is to help people towards and into work - whether public, private or voluntary sector.
Discussion threads that are about how to refuse the support offered belong elsewhere. We make no apology for removing threads that are about how to obstruct the work of the people for whom Indus Delta is designed.
Ally
The fact that there's a law forbidding employment discrimination against people with disabilities hasn't stopped it happening.
Making the legal requirement actually work requires (in the Indus Delta context) welfare to work staff pointing out to employers that their participant could do the job advertised as well as working with participants to stop them giving up at the first or 1000th hurdle.
@Paul.Bivand Are you speaking for CESI, when you say that a thread that discusses the Data Protection Act principle of consent is somehow obstructing the Welfare to Work industry?
If a Job has been advertised,at what stage in the application process does a Provider speak to the employer? Why does the CESI industry not just advocate for everyone who meets the essential criteria of a job to be interviewed?
Do you know how many Providers and Work Programme Subcontractors have been awarded the "Positive about disabled people" accreditation?
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/Employmentsupport/LookingForW...
@ Paul. Bivand
Really Paul I had expected better than this limp reply:
If you cannot or will not engage in debate then please do not resort to censorship.
From your reply it would seem that you (possibly acting on instructions?) have deleted a popular, relevent and topical thread. If I was an ungenerous human being I might suspect that this is because you were losing the intellectual debate. If you are going to quit and run each time this happens then you devalue this site. If you have a case to make - then make it - don't hide behind platitudes like "obstruct the work of the people for whom Indus Delats is designed". Of course if you want the site to revert to the anodyne, flaccid, ineffectual and unpopular site it was then all you have to do is ban those with contradictory opinions (again!).
Statistics | Inclusion
Paul Bivand Head of Statistics and Analysis
http://www.cesi.org.uk/statistics
@Paul Bivand Head of Statistics and Analysis and Censorship and Omission http://www.cesi.org.uk & http://www.indusdelta.co.uk
Why does your report:
Opening up employment for all: the role of assessment in the Work Programme
http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.cesi.org.uk/sites/default/f...
not contain any references to consent or privacy or give one mention of the Data Protection Act?
@Ally - The Data Protection Act was never designed for not participating in trying to find work its purpose was to protect individuals and stop people misusing data meaning using data for a purpose it was not intended or collected for or losing it.
In all your threads it seems you like to use this act for your own purposes of building barriers, trying to prevent people getting the help and support they need to get back in to work. You often use statements and links in a context they are not intended and jump on anyone that disagrees with you.
@ Lazarus had a point when he found info stating the following:
Information sharing can often take place without your consent. In many cases where you are not asked your permission, the information sharing will be reasonable and expected. However, it should be clear why the information is being shared and who is involved ... If organisations want to share sensitive or confidential information, they are more likely to need your consent.
You can also ask an organisation to stop sharing information about you. However, they only have to do so where the sharing causes you unjustified damage or distress.
Really if you need to win – then you are a winner! Let’s now try and have some positive discussions and start building bridges, surely we are missing the point here – the main purpose for all of us is to help people back in to sustained work.
So @ Ally instead of giving providers negativity how about giving us some positive ideas about HOW YOU THINK the sector can HELP get people back to WORK. WHAT KIND OF PROGRAMME WOULD YOU DESIGN and how would it work for individual jobseekers.
@Greyham
My 'model' is simple, it is one based upon voluntary choice of employment support services on a not for profit basis, removal of the sanctions regime and mandatory unpaid forced labour. Completely separate from any DWP data sharing or processing.
Well said, Greyham.
And, Ally, not every report we produce has to cover every subject that might conceivably be relevant. The intended audience for the report (Providers) would have been aware of their legal responsibilities without having to be forcibly reminded. It's a short report not an encyclopedia.
@Ally - so you are saying it is OK for people who do not want to work and have no intention of trying to find work (and there are some)to keeping taking this FREE money but have to do nothing at all in return -
Excellent sounds like a great model, when can I join and can I stay on it for life please!
Sorry if I come across as confused, but the DWP Data Controller does require a 'Data consent agreement' form to be created, so it provides a summary that enables it to be signed on the basis of fully informed freely given and voluntary consent.
Sample of such a consent form:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/86255/response/214543/attach/html/...
If Providers want to work outside of the remit of the Data Controllers directions they cannot do so when providing welfare to work/fare (forced unpaid labour)programmes commissioned by the DWP Data Controller.
@Ally no-one is sent on forced unpaid labour, they are getting paid to do this labour from a number of funding streams like JSA, housing benefits and council tax!
I have to work to get money to pay my rent why should others who are able not have to do the same!
@ greyham
there you go again!
This is not what Ally said at all. I interpret Ally's suggestion as allowing "customers" some choice in the type of support they get and who gives it. Surely as a supporter of private sector involvement you should applaud the element of choice given under Ally's model. Or is it a case of "greyham knows best"? or Perhaps the "not for profit" concept rankles?
@greyham (again)!
Really you just cannot be that naive!
When the option is starvation and/or destitution then, believe it or not, the labour is "forced".
but not un-paid
So that would be Minmum Wage then???
Legal Challenge to Government’s ‘Forced Labour’ Scheme
"Slavery and forced or compulsory labour is prohibited by UK and European human rights law, in particular by Article 4(2) of the European Convention on Human Rights. There are limited exceptions for work such as that carried out in prison. Also excluded is work forming part of a “normal civic obligation”, but such obligations are limited to work as part of jury service and military service and the like. Forced labour has also been prohibited by international law since 1930."
http://www.publicinterestlawyers.co.uk/news_details.php?id=193
@Greyham
You said:
"but not un-paid"
it is unpaid forced labour as the 'employer' gets labour for free, makes profit from it and it is not undertaken on the basis of free will. IE: Slavery
Unbelievable! You really are full of …. Knowledge on how to stop effort …. So I suppose MWRA is going to be challenged in court then for comitting Slavery! ha ha ha – totally unbelievable! - What planet has all this come from?
Did you really mean!
SLAVERY is a system under which people are treated as property to be bought and sold, and are forced to work. Slaves can be held against their will from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and deprived of the right to leave.
No-one is bought and sold! Any-one can leave at any time.
@g
Well now let's consider this - a person is sent to a provider who then has the power to force that victim to work for a third party. A fee is paid (currently£400 or £600) to the provider. For all I know the "employer" (not really such since most obligations of an employer have been removed) may be paying the provider for the use of this free labour. The victim is, as you say, free to leave at any time. Trouble is he will have to learn very quickly how to live without food, shelter or the ordinary necessaries of life. Some freedom!
Slavery seems pretty close to the mark.
so they are going to stop MWRA then are they?
@Greyham
So you do not disagree that the slave work undertaken is not paid for by the Company (Tesco, Sainsbury etc) and they make profit from the forced unpaid labour?
How to avoid slave work
http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?p=280
@G
You were a bit slow at first but now you're beginning to catch on. Yes the idea is to stop all forms of mandatory, unpaid labour. This includes MWRA, Community Activity Punishment etc. etc.
@Ally - @consignment399
I really do take my hat off to you 2 - You seem to have lots of this stuff to hand proving you have worked hard to get this information but this is not helping anyone so time for me to retire and let you continue with your games.
Lastly if you read the newspaper item from @Ally's link:
http://www.publicinterestlawyers.co.uk/news_details.php?id=193 - it said the Government had 14 days to respond - that was nearly 2 months ago - I would be very interested to hear what the outcome was.
Ah ... back to this old chestnut!
I am able to leave my job because I'd rather not work, but that means I too will have to "learn very quickly how to live without food, shelter or the ordinary necessaries of life." Does that make me a slave? Feels like it sometimes, but no it doesn't make me a slave and I am free to leave my job if I want. But I have to accept the consequences.
People on JSA ARE BEING PAID JSA! That is their "wage". Whether you feel it's enough or not, they are receiving payment, so can it be slavery if they're asked to do something specific in order to retain the payments they receive? If you say yes, then by your definition everyone in the world is a slave.
@Greyham - I'm with you on this one but couldn't resist a final post. But if you're throwing in the towel then so am I as it's no fun on your own! :)
300'000 Jobs available, 2.6 million claiming JSA, including 67'000 Public employees recently made redundant sine 2008, 5 million seeking work daily. 5,000 jobs created by Private sector since 2008. 9 million working age adult economically inactive. A ready supply of slave labour for big business seeking more profits.
All of this sounds like the community punishment meted out to those found guilty of.................crime.
How many slave work placement should we make, so the Public fund companies who can pay staff?
For all of those millions of unemployed who have paid tax and national insurance for as security for unemployment should be made to undertake slave placements.
@Lazarus
The government had 14 days to respond to a 'Letter before action', then permission to seek Judicial Review is lodged. As the High Court is a busy place it can take many many months to respond, arrange for an Oral hearing and ensure all interested parties are notified.
Just like Slavery the wheels of justice take a long time and many slave owners have a vested interest in maintenance of Slavery that pays the mortgage, kids school fees, holidays, shareholders and other millions of people who do not do any work or claim out of work benefits, but make use of Public funded services daily.
Unbelievable!-
Yes Greyham I'm sure you are in denial.
No wonder you find our facts 'unbelievable'
No jobs out there eh! well I can get info off the internet and play it to make it suit my needs too ............ then call it facts.
There were 31.27 million workforce jobs in September 2011, up 150,000 over the quarter and up 89,000 on a year earlier. source of info stats office. So there are jobs out there and I never made this up.
I really don't want to waste my time doing this anymore as it is not helping any-one. I want to use my time helping people get back in to work to re-start their lives. Just seeing people get a chance to access a better life is more rewarding than the small amount of pay we get for doing it.
Well said Themistokles! and welcome. A warning - you are going to find posting on this site a very frustrating experience. There are some here, as you so aptly put it, "in denial". They wriggle like eels, they obfuscate, they twist, they turn, they deliberatly misinterpret and ultimately when they run out of places to turn and are pinned down by the forces the logic - they delete the thread and banish the posters. Do not expect fair treatment here! But welcome all the same!
@Greyham
What exactly does this mean? Is it that there were 31.27 million people in paid employment? If so then what is the significance? If not, then what exactly are you trying to say? Surely a far more relevant statistic is the number of people actually seeking employment compared with the number of genuine vacancies available (even this ignores regional variations).
31.27 million people working is fine - but irrelevant if there are still around 10million wanting paid employment. What we need to compare is the number of (real) vacancies (i.e. those offering genuine,sustainable employment) with the numbers who want to fill those positions. This is quite difficult since succesive governments of all persuasions have (and continue to) manipulate the statistics to show as low as possible figure for unemployment. If you don't believe this (you seem to find a lot of facts "unbelievable") ask yourself why those on the WP don't count as unemployed.
In the absence of credible statistics I would venture to suggest that the real figures are approximately 25 people looking for each vacancy (+- 20%). There are obviously huge regional diffferences (the SE faring better as usual). This represents a lot of competition for each job - and I ignore those in a job applying for another job in order to improve their situation.
Now you and others who are self styled "w2w professionals" make a living out of trying (and maybe even sometimes succeeding) in placing people in jobs. When you do so it is at the expense of the unidentified individual who would otherwise have got that job. Net result? Zero! At best you have influenced which individual got the job - Being generous to you and your ilk all you have done is place one person in work at the expense of someone else who would otherwise have secured that position. Well you deserve a clap on the back for that! Before you try to jump down my throat again - go away and think about it. If you want proof then just ask yourself "If the W2W "profession" didn't exist would there now be 3 million genuine job vacancies and 3+ million unsuitable unemployable candidates out there?". If your answer is "yes" then my next question is - "What colour is the sky in cloud cuckoo land"
Now I have no no doubt that some of you are well intentioned (just "some" there are others who are money orientated and unnecessarily megalomaniacal), my argument is not with you - it is with the system that you serve. I feel genuinely sorry for those of you who believe that you are doing a service (see reasoning above)and a genuine hatred for those of you who use your positions to inflict unnecessary suffering on others. To the latter I say be aware that:
1) You are in no way intellectually superior to, or better qualified than all of your customers.
2) You are a pawn in the whole w2w industry.
3) You are only as good as your last set of "outcome" results (or KPIs) and therefore eminently disposable.
4) Try walking from your side of the desk to the other, you will be surprised how short a distance it is, how little time it takes and how the perspective changes.
Got to go now - all those Jeremy Kyle shows won't watch themselves.
I have worked in the W2W sector until recently for over 15 years during which time I dedicated my life to helping all my customers to move forward and better themselves. During my time in the sector I have worked on and been part of many of the different approaches tried out by the sector to help people back to work some included courses/training leading to real qualifications some were focused on improving peoples Literacy and Numeracy, some focused on work experience and some just on intensive job-searching, many requiring the jobseeker to attend for 30 hours per week.
As you can imagine I have seen thousands of poeple over the years and although I have helped many back to work some still there today many more were resistant to even looking for work let alone participating in our service. I had many customers thinking it was their given right to draw benefits for as long AS THEY WANTED, some looked to the internet and found information stating there was a conspiracy and that the government was a private company, some found information on the net to say they could SELL their NI number or telling me they had no intention working as if they got a job the CSA would be after them. Some had insurance on loans and said if they got a job then their insurance would stop and THEY would have to pay it. We even found a few who were working cash in hand as well as drawing benefits and this was why they were not turning up when they should of, some customers said they did not want to get a job because they wanted to be at home to see their kids grow up. Many of these people have been OUT OF WORK FOR 5 YEARS OR OVER with some NEVER WORKED at all in their life time but are very able to work. Now these are the people we need to take another look at.
Now all this is info is what I have actually experienced over the past 15 years and having talked to many in the industry they have also experienced similar. We know everyone is not like the above but sometimes all this negativity and telling people they don’t have to do this or that can do damage, not to the providers out there but the individuals themselves as they believe some of it and don’t do what they are supposed to do often leading to them being sanctioned. Some people on this site know the system well enough to play but some posts are confusing some individuals out there – who are going to help them when their money has been stopped – YOU- I think NOT – It’s their programme advisers. Don’t get me wrong I am all for Job Seekers rights but rights without the risk.
So was I thinking about my bank balance while working on W2W – NO – I enjoyed the job and especially the chance to change people’s lives for the better? My job did not stop at 5 any FREE time I had even at home went to searching out jobs for individuals on my case load. Did my customers respect me – YES, I think they could see I was there to help them, I always had time for them and even those who found themselves being sanctioned knew it was the last resort and still respected me. All of us learnt lessons and all of us respected each other. I really loved that job and you know what the best reward for doing it is that I still have people stopping me in the street thanking me although I always insist it was them that generated success I only guided them to the right road.
I know its hard out there but not impossible if you remain positive. You say we should put ourselves on the over side, well recently I have been. I was made redundant from the sector in September am over 55 and thought my world had come to an end. To find work, did I gripe about the system NO, did I waste time looking up my rights - NO, I practiced what I had told my customers. I don’t work in W2W anymore but I am working. I could not find any suitable full time work but I did find 3 part-time jobs and all within a month of becoming unemployed that make up a full time wage. These jobs are not great, a couple are in min wage but it has given me something to build on.
@consignment399, @ally
Well I have sat quietly by following this thread but the above posts from you both demostrate to me that you are on the wrong forum!
There are 2 principles here.
1. Everybody who is currently out of work deserves help to compete for the jobs that are available. Yes - at any one time there a 300,000 vacancies in our job centres, but if I recall correctly, only about 20% of vacancies are recorded in this way.
2. A 'free ride' in life, paid for by everyone else, can't be seen as 'life choice', hence a need to ensure that everybody contributes what they can to the society in which they live.
That is why there is a need for a Welfare to Work industry. The shape of that industry, how it is funded, be it 'Private', 'Public' or '3rd Sector' or a mix of the 3, or the programmes and support offer are genuine topics for debate on the forum. The 'flat earth' view that the whole industry has no purpose has no place here.
I don't know either of your politics, but I know of no 'eutopia' in the world that seems to be governed by people of a like mind to your own. A country where the ability to choose to do nothing and be funded by the state is an option. Unless you have the fortune of being born with the perverbial 'silver spoon in your mouth'you should expect to 'put in what you can' in order to 'take out what you need'. Nothing in life comes for free!
Regardless of how long someone does something or what their motivation for doing it is, they should be open to opinions not in tune with their own and understand they can get things wrong, get caught up in w2w/fare/house industry 'group think' comments, full of platitudes/worn out phrases unrelated to reality.
The discussion that has been removed highlighted how those in the w2w/fare/house industry do not understand issues of consent and basic Data Protection Act principles. Thankfully a copy of the censored debate is here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Findu...
@Tyn "Yes - at any one time there a 300,000 vacancies in our job centres, but if I recall correctly, only about 20% of vacancies are recorded in this way."
Please supply supporting evidence.
Latest W2w/fare/house updates
Go to Europe (except UK!) and get JSA at £20K p.a for a single person with no dependents.
http://indusdelta.co.uk/discussion/jsa_to_increase_to_%C2%A320000_pa_sin...
Jobs programme ‘hangs by thread’
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7048024a-1b48-11e1-85f8-00144feabdc0.html
Welfare reform? You can’t force people into jobs that don’t exist
As one senior manager for a contractor said to me recently, "You can't force someone into a job that doesn't exist." There is a growing anxiety around Whitehall that the whole programme will collapse or face a humiliating government bailout.
http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2012/01/work-welfare-labour-bene...
Tyn on Fri, 06/01/2012 - 12:42pm.
'Nothing in life comes for free!'
Correct, although that also includes the billions spent each year on W2W schames.
Think were just 50% of that could be spent/invested elsewhere.
Greyham on Thu, 05/01/2012 - 7:47pm.
'So there are jobs out there..'
Is it just me that can see the massive irony is this thread.
Themistokles on Thu, 05/01/2012 - 7:13pm
+1
@Greyham
I somehow imagined that you were about 30 years younger than that! At least it explains your vast experience, I'm somewhere in the middle.
I know maybe 11 or so people who are unemployed. At one end they range from fully experienced and GSregistred engineer, apprentist trained welder/pipefitter, recently made redundent policeman. At the other end of course, we have a few with issues such as little work history and little in the way qualifications.
At the appropriate end, they occasionally ask me for help in researching out a company, print off an application form, etc.
Of course everybodies personal experience will be different, but I'm afraid all of them want work, all want to work, some desperately.
Many years ago I asked to go on some job club scheme, even before I knew it was £10 extra on top of the JSA/UB it was completely voluntary. £10/20 extra might not sound very much, but it's a very big difference to the 'disposable income' of a JSA/UB. Luckily it was resonably well organized, and the very first company I was offered to try was near enough right up my street. After working/training LOL for 2 months I got a job out of it. I suppose we could call this the little carrot approach.
Wonder why the gov. don't introduce a similiar arrangement within WP?, I think I know and it has nothing to do with cost.
The WP big stick approach is to do what? Batter the GSservice engineer into a PT cleaning job at the town hall, I won't bother filling in all the others! But if you think this is an unusual example, You now (and me, for that matter) are in this position right now, and a few million others, just think of all the GDP-type wealth that's being created(not).
"I have worked in the W2W sector until recently for over 15 years during which time I dedicated my life to helping all my customers to move forward and better themselves."
...and now you find yourself in their position(near enough) yourself, surely you can see there's a problem.
I 4 1 believe you, although not all of your views, and really do wish you all the best.
Lazarus on Thu, 05/01/2012 - 3:39pm.
'People on JSA ARE BEING PAID JSA! That is their "wage".'
I'm beginning to see why people have such a big problem with this.
If you're working and you're getting paid(as long as you do turn up and do some work), well that's erm... A JOB isn't it.
So why isn't it topped up to NMW, by the gov. if required. Oh dear.
@ally
Re your request for supporting evidence - 2 mins on Google came up with this
http://www.fsb.org.uk/policy/assets/fsb%20report%20-%20reform%20the%20jo...
and this JOBCENTRE REPORT:
"SUMMARY OF MAIN FINDINGS
The main findings are:
• Approximately half of employers advertised 50% or more of vacancies with the
JobCentre"
http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/general_employer_satisfaction_survey_oct02.pdf
@Grappling – Thank you for your comments it is nice to get a sensible response! –
In your post you talked joining a job club scheme part of which sent you as a volunteer to what looked like (I may be wrong) a work placement with a local employer. You said you worked/trained there for 2 months before they gave you a job. I know this approach works as it was successful for many jobseekers on my case load especially those with little or no work experience, one employer was so impressed with one of my young workers they even created a position for them. I always made sure that employers were not taking advantage and if I got any bad feedback from anyone I may have considered whether to use them again for others. Some scheme’s such as these can still be accessed by individuals. The point is you got up and volunteered to do something about your situation but some call this SLAVE LABOUR have to be forced hence the need for the big stick.
Also see recent post about this from @Tyn and @Steph in response to jobseeker - discussion: Can anyone offer any constructive advice on jobsearch.
Grappling I totally agree that having a big stick approach for the people you mentioned is NOT good and I would like to see a more encouraged approach than that of a big stick approach. The problem is that there are some claimants who have been unemployed for 5 years or more (mentioned in last post) who have no intention of working and play the system. I think but can not confirm that they brought in the big stick approach to tackle these. We must remember that the big stick approach has not always been used, in the 90’s there were very few sanctions if any and unless you did something really bad your benefits were very protected. In the 90’s we were almost at full employment and vacancies were plentiful giving almost everyone the opportunity to find work, if they wanted to.
Today things have changed and YES there are more people unemployed at any one time than there are vacant posts but there are still jobs out there and some are having problems being filled.
I fully understand your concerns with the ex policemen and the GSservice engineer but is staying unemployed and living on benefit for years their best options. I had similar skilled workers on my caseload and we came up with a plan that evolved the agreement of the individuals concerned, call it a plan B. We would research the area to find a list of jobs that were commonly and regularly advertised - from the list the jobseeker would chose what JOBS they could do and would do, we then both agreed a time frame – (6 months even 1 full year). If the jobseeker had not found work in their chosen field by the time agreed then they would work on plan B to go for the most common work. If they did have to take up work like Warehouse or Working in a factory as their second choice it did not stop them from looking for something better but while they were working and earning more than they would have got on benefits.
In some cases we found jobseekers that did this had a much better chance of getting back to their chosen career because they had work history than spending years on benefits generating barriers and big gaps in their employment record. I as an experience W2W worker worked to this plan with a much shorter time frame, instead of wasting time on the dole waiting for that ideal W2W vacancy to come along I went out and got something while I was waiting.
It is not great out there and YES I have seen some of what it is like but like you I did something about my unemployment – I went out and got something. I had to lower my sights and take a big pay cut but I am working and earning more than I would have got on the dole. Not all jobseekers will be able to do this on their own and that is why you have W2W to help them. It must be remebered that Benefits are supposed to be a stop gap. If you become unemployed it was supposed to be a safety net until you found something else, it was never designed to be a paid to people for years or be given to people who were not actually looking for work or have never worked. Some countries I have visited do not have this system – if you don’t work you don’t eat but thankfully we don’t have to suffer this and that's why I get upset about people abusing the system.
These are just my views and I know that not everyone will agree but I only say it as it is and how I have experienced it myself so acknowledge that not all will agree with everything. It is not my intention to impose my views on others, they are free to take it or leave it.
@Greyham:
I totally agree with your comment above, i have a contractual agreement with JCP to attend my WP provider on a fortnightly basis for ESA (i was involved in a road accident which left me with temporal lobe epilepsy, although medication has stopped the seizures now), however i call in to the centre in between to get my spec letters posted.
I've attended a few one day classroom based courses held by my provider which were aimed at confidence building and interview techniques etc - there are quite a few young people that attend the centre who obviously have no intenion of ever finding work and they are generally disruptive or sit in the corner of the room playing cards or music on mobile phones. I have no problem with the provider, they do a good job and are always helpful but it seems that the advisors/tutors have no power to discipline disruptive members of a class.
Surely the 'big stick' approach should be used with these claimants? I know the Work Programme is not meant to be like nursery school but if they are disruptive and are having an adverse effect on other people in the Work Programme classroom they should be booted out and sent back to the Job Centre in order to lose their benefits until such a time as they are willing to make the effort to show some respect for others.
@jobseeker - Thank you for your comments! - You really have put the positivity back on to this site and I am sure your efforts will be rewarded soon.
I fully understand where you are coming from with the element of disruption sometimes found in centres playing cards or listening to music. This was a major issue when jobseekers had to attend centres 30 hours a week under New Deal but it really should not be such an issue under the Work Programme. If you find any of this is causing you any disruption please try having a word in private with your provider adviser. Action can be taken by providers to stop this especially if it is effecting others, it might also be possible to change your day or their day of attendance at the centre. You really should not have to put up with this.
Really, well done for your efforts and I send you all the best for future success - I know you will do it - Don't give up!
I received a telephone call this morning from one of the local companies that i sent a spec letter and CV to inviting me in for what i thought was going to be an informal chat. They had a vacancy available and have offered me the position before even advertising the role! Also, they have bought the start date forward from March to start on 23rd January.
As this site is aimed at those employed as professionals in the W2W industry, i'd like to say a few words from someone who has been sat on the other side of the desk for the last six months as a jobseeker. No matter how hard things seem or how many rejection letters or no responses you get, please dont give up. That one company who you don't send a speculative letter or an application form to could be a future employer who are looking to place an advert for staff in the newspaper in the near future, they may be willing to offer a position before advertising, get your foot in the door and make a good impression before you have to contend with a long queue of applicants chasing the job. Treat each letter or application form as a raffle ticket - the more you send, the more chance you have of winning the prize, the provider posted them for me so it didn't cost me anything other than paper and £12 for a replacement ink cartridge for my printer. (Providers offer printing but i did my research at home)
Use the services of the work programme as much as you can for help with building CV's and composing letters, even things like interview skills. Times are hard out there but nothing is impossible. The key to success is being able to stand out from the crowd.
The work programme is a 2 way street, it takes effort from both sides. I never had any experience of unemployment until i was involved in my accident so cannot comment on the New Deal but my provider has been more than willing to help and have always been on the other end of an email if i've ever needed them for anything.
Congratulations, jobseeker, that's great. Thanks for bringing a more positive tone.
YES I second that - What a fantastic result - @Jobseeker you should be feeling very proud of yourself - A BIG WELL DONE!
Thanks guys.
My method of Job search:
Job seeking has to be treated in the same way as any ordinary 9 til 5 job. The moment you sit back and put off writing a spec letter or researching is a day wasted. Grab a notepad and a pen on a nice dry day, have a wander around industrial estates and areas where there are offices/shops and make a note of the companies you pass. The telephone directory is a good way too but remember that companies vanish or change address in between printing. Then put a few hours a aside to type spec letters, keeping note of where you have sent them.
I photocopied pages from the A to Z which covered the areas which i had sent letters and marked the roads off with a highlighter as i posted them. Mark an 'X' on your home address and work outwards starting at say a mile radius of home. As each week passes, expand the radius of your search.. The map should look like a dartboard as you move outwards and you cover all of your area in depth.
It really does work!!
Self-determination by service users
Welfare to Work professionals will help service users to reach informed decisions
about their lives and promote their autonomy, provided that this does not conflict
with their safety or with the rights of others. They will endeavour to minimise
the use of legal or other compulsion. Any action which diminishes service users'
civil or legal rights must be ethically, professionally and legally justifiable.
"jobseeker" sounds like w2w monologue
@ HappyPP:
"jobseeker" sounds like w2w monologue
Even after only 6 months, I just didn't think that life on benefits was as good as going out to earn a living. With my mortgage protection period coming to an end in March £65 a day is better than £65 a week in my book!
@Jobseeker, it was really great to read your experience proving that sheer determination and a preparedness to take the support on offer does pay off. I wish you every success in your new job. Please keep on contributing. I am sure I am not alone in wishing to know how you get on.